Episode 20

full
Published on:

19th Apr 2022

20. New York City is Marmite

Neda Whitney, Senior Vice President and Head of Marketing for the Americas at Christie's, joins me to talk Metaverse, NFTs, and just all things luxury. Neda has an astounding background in brand storytelling, and has pivoted within her career many times to many industries. We engage in a broad discussion, from how AR/VR has helped the art world with virtual auctions (you can try out pieces in your house using AR!), to NFT sales (Neda worked on the famous Beeple NFT sale), to how NFTs can be used for practical and impractical things. Join us on this journey into art, luxury, NFTs, and the future.

Episode Resources:

https://www.thedrum.com/news/2021/04/14/inside-christies-digital-transformation-and-pioneering-use-nfts

https://www.straitstimes.com/life/mystery-singapore-buyer-of-93m-digital-work-at-christies-auction-revealed

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-christies-is-pitching-its-expansion-from-picassos-to-nfts-11637700438

Transcript
Unknown:

Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now.

Lindsay Poss:

Hello, and welcome to the meta woman podcast part

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of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your host Lindsay

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the boss POS and from struggle to success for covering it all.

Lindsay Poss:

To returning listeners. Thank you so much for tuning into the

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show week after week means a lot to me. And to our new listeners,

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welcome. I hope you enjoy. I'm really excited to introduce

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today's guests. I've been really looking forward to this

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conversation after initially meeting this person. It's just

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been so wonderful to dig into their background a little bit

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and learn more about what they do. So today on the podcast is

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Neto Whitney, Senior Vice President and Head of Marketing

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for the Americas at Christie's, which is so cool. Netta Welcome

Lindsay Poss:

to the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Unknown:

Oh, it's so exciting to be here. Thanks for having me,

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Lindsay.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, just to start off, I would love for you

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to give the audience a bit about yourself and your background. I

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know we share common career paths with both work and

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telecommunication and sexual health education. And then we

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both need to jump into tech somehow. So I would love for you

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to detail kind of how you got to where you were and what you're

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passionate and excited about.

Unknown:

Yeah, it's not the most straightforward path into the

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art and auction world. I will admit, I spent the first 20

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years of my career in advertising in New York, San

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Francisco, London and Paris. And I started in San Francisco. It's

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really traditional and wonderful branding agencies like

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Interbrand, and made my way to New York and realized I was a

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New Yorker through and through and worked at multiple agencies

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in the city. I then met my boyfriend, now husband, and we

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moved to Paris together. And I worked in Paris in London for a

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bit. And my last stint was at an agency called RGA. It's an

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amazing blue chip digital agency. And I got the absolute

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pleasure and delight on working on such a variety of different

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kinds of businesses. And I think one of the the most thrilling

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things about working agency side is if you do it, right, you get

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to solve some of the most interesting brand problems out

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there. And you get to learn so much about different industries.

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It's kind of like your SWAT team, that black ops parachutes

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in and they're like, this is a problem that we either don't

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want to tackle or don't know how to tackle. And they like, Call

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in the agency, and you go in, and I did everything from

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helping, you know, ESPN, think about the redefinition of sports

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fandom to you mentioned sexual health and wellness, I worked

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with Planned Parenthood, which was an absolute gift and

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privilege, on thinking about how to address the sexual health

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deserts in middle America and how to get that information in

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the hands of young women and non binary teenagers who really

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needed answers that weren't just gossip and resources that were

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vetted. So we created a sexual health and wellness chat bot,

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and use technology for good. I had the opportunity to work on

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augmented reality, I got to help Uber think about how to create

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loyalty apps for both drivers and riders, which were really

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different communities that were incentivized by really different

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emotional loyalty triggers. So such really different amazing

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projects. I got to work on tippity and L'Oreal and a whole

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gamut of projects. And I ended my career at RGA. Working on the

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Verizon business and launching iPhones with them and working on

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Super Bowl campaigns. It was my first foray into the metaverse

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way back in the day in 2019, and 2020. And then I got a call from

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the team at Christie's. And I've been thinking of going client

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side for a while, you know, it's really exciting to get that

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phone call and get to solve some of these really hard problems.

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But I was left a little unfulfilled by not being able to

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see things from start to finish and to learn, iterate, and I

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really wanted to be able to, you know, do the whole thing. nose

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to tail and when I got the call from Christie's it was such an

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interesting time we were we were and still are in the midst of a

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global pandemic. I don't know what I get to stop saying. And

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then it's

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also far away. Away.

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Like how long is a piece of string but it Arden

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auction is a very IRL scenario you know, everyone's seen those

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iconic scene. As a people raising the paddles and bidding

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in the frenzy of people, you know, raising the numbers and

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you want to see art up close, especially when you're paying

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millions of dollars for it. And we don't just sell art, we sell

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diamonds, we sell dinosaurs, we sell sculpture, we sell all

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sorts of amazing things. But the devil is in those details. So

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how do you take that experience? And how do you translate that

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into a digital world when that's the only option you really have.

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So it was such an interesting time to join the business. It

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struck a chord for me, you know, I've marketed so many things in

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my career. But the gift of being able to market these truly

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priceless one of a kind objects is a gift I wake up every

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morning thankful for It's so cheesy to say but it's it's the

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honest truth. So here I am, a year and a bit later, fully

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immersed in the world of art and auction. And that world of art

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and auction has taken me so many unexpected places. You know, I

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think I came into it thinking well, the pace might be a little

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slower, but maybe that's a welcome change, and I was so

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unimaginably wrong about the pace being slower. Three months

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after I joined, we sold an NFT for the earth shattering record

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breaking price of $69.3 million. It was the NFT price heard

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around the world that started kind of a tech rocket ship in

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the art world, which was really exciting. In March of this year,

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we announced a Marilyn Monroe that we are selling this May in

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New York at Christie's that is estimate on request, but in the

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region of $200 million, which will be the most expensive

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estimate for a painting of the 20th century ever on record and

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is poised to perhaps become the most expensive painting ever

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sold at auction. It's been a year and a bit of record

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breaking moments and fast paced moments, and I wouldn't change

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it for the world.

Lindsay Poss:

Those are awesome stories. So there's a lot to

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start with. I do want to point out that when you said oh, I

Lindsay Poss:

realized I was a native New Yorker through and through. So

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funny because I have the exact opposite experience visiting New

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York. I'm like I am a New York City visitor through

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Yeah, New York is I like to say it's Marmite, you

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know, you either love it or you hate it. And you know, right

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away. There's no ambivalence about New York City. And I

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happen to love the flavor.

Lindsay Poss:

Yes. Marmite is a good a good comparison, where

Lindsay Poss:

it's like every once in a while you think, oh, maybe I'll try it

Lindsay Poss:

again. Maybe it'll be different. But I keep trying anyway. That's

Lindsay Poss:

so funny. Well, there's so much to dig into there. One thing I

Lindsay Poss:

want to talk about is Christy's pivot to online, just because I

Lindsay Poss:

read a statistic that said that during 2020s, one sale, which I

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believe is kind of a big event of the year for Christie's if

Lindsay Poss:

I'm not mistaken,

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instead of one sale was a sale that we did in 2020. It

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was the first of its kind, it was a global relay auction

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between New York, London, Hong Kong and Paris. And it was a

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massive virtual undertaking for us.

Lindsay Poss:

That's what I was reading about is that 50% of the

Lindsay Poss:

works that were auctioned were sold without the buyer even

Lindsay Poss:

having seen them, which is a I would imagine a big shift in the

Lindsay Poss:

way that the business was run. So can you just tell me what,

Lindsay Poss:

what things that you all are keeping moving into the future,

Lindsay Poss:

about the virtual auctions? What you learned what, what is maybe

Lindsay Poss:

an improvement over the in person experience, or what is a?

Lindsay Poss:

I don't know what the word for opposite of improvement is, but

Lindsay Poss:

a deeper movement in the virtual experience. Or, as we sort of

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maybe emerged from the pandemic, like what are you keeping? What

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are you getting rid of? How are you using virtual experiences to

Lindsay Poss:

supplement your in person stuff as it picks back up?

Unknown:

It's a great question. And it's a great luxury to have,

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right? Because we we've learned so much from the data that we've

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received, and the data we've received is shocking in so many

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ways, and I am a firm advocate of digital. But even I was

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surprised by the adoption of our client base and how many of our

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clients are really comfortable with the digital tools and

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services that we've offered, how many of them are engaging in

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online auctions, how many of them bid and transact online?

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Because we're talking about really high price points. When

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you talk about the one sale, you know, those objects are millions

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of dollars. They're not a lipstick, they're not, you know,

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a pair of shoes, they are priceless works of art and that

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takes quite a leap of faith. And I think some of that leap of

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faith is the 250 plus years of reputation that Christie's has

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established Um, and you know, the ability to I've seen a lot

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of these works of art up close in museums before they reach our

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hands sometimes. So what can I say? I think what we've learned

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is the optionality in digital has been a true additive

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experience for our clients, being able to give them the

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option to view an auction, in a live stream format that has the

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same effect as a TV program. I mean, our live streams are award

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winning, produced live streams, they're not just like one guy on

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a shaky camera in the back of the room, and being able to

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provide them that option if they don't want you or can't travel.

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I think that is that is huge. And I think that is something

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that our clients are grateful for, and will continue to want,

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I think, offering them tools like superzoom photography, like

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augmented reality, the ability to take a piece of art, or even

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a sculpture, that's huge, and you can't transport it and see

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what it looks like in your backyard. But with augmented

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reality technology, you can, I think that's something we won't

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be walking away from anytime soon. I think we've learned

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that, you know, II catalogs actually are really valuable to

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our clients, and from a sustainability perspective are

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really important to our corporate goals. You know, we

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don't want to be producing some of these heavy bound books that

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are behind me that we used to produce all the time, because

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there are implications on you know, the world that we don't

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want to continue to perpetuate. So we've, we tried to move to a

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digital catalog format, which has worked quite well. So

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there's a lot of things that, you know, we are seeing that we

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will continue to do, I think, you know, will we be fully

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virtual in our auctions? No, we're so excited to welcome

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people back into our auction rooms at 20 Rockefeller Center

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and King Street and around the world. We had live auctions in

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the fall last year, they were so much fun to go to. I'm looking

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forward to our live auctions in May in New York this season. We

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had folks in our auction rooms in you know, London earlier this

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year. So I think there's definitely going to be a hybrid

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approach where we use digital technology to be additive to the

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IRL experience instead of replacing the IRL experience.

Lindsay Poss:

Gotcha. Well, I hadn't thought about, you know,

Lindsay Poss:

I feel like as if I personally get lost a lot in the VR side,

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and have lost touch with what's exciting about AR. But the

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ability to visualize things before you purchase them in home

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is really special. I mean, that's, that's a new, that's a I

Lindsay Poss:

guess, past three to five, maybe even less than five, maybe more

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like two to three years and experience that I can imagine in

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the industry, you're and makes a huge difference in the way

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clients think about purchasing and what they think about

Lindsay Poss:

purchasing if they can sort of place it. Yeah, it's like having

Lindsay Poss:

a dressing room for free almost or, yeah, that's

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that. And you know, we use technology as well. We've

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done full home walkthroughs and VR, which is really exciting.

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And we actually we've used hologram technology, which is

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really exciting. Yeah. In March, we had a frenzies NFT sale where

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we had the proto hologram machine here in 20 Rockefeller

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Center. And so people were able to see the NF T's kind of come

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to life in 3d via hologram technology. So we're always, you

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know, people think, an auction house and they think, you know,

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255 years old, and they think, you know, we're not going to be

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keeping up with the times, but we're really pushing that

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envelope from a technology perspective. So yeah, we're

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always experimenting with the new and the latest.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, so speaking of, I would love to hear more

Lindsay Poss:

about how you moved into NF T's and the people sale. And that

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was obviously Record breaking and got a lot of news, which I

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think a lot of the news it was it was mixed, right? It was good

Lindsay Poss:

and bad with a lot of people who are fairly resistant to the idea

Lindsay Poss:

of NF T's and digital ownership. But how are you all thinking

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about it in on on your side, or the people that are coming in to

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the auction houses, I'm imagining that they're excited

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about it, which is a good indication that eventually, the

Lindsay Poss:

negative press will subside and digital ownership will become

Lindsay Poss:

more of a thing in the common vernacular. But I would just

Lindsay Poss:

love to hear about how you all got interested in NF T's how did

Lindsay Poss:

that happen?

Unknown:

Yeah, and so funny enough, everyone knows us for

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people as our first NF T cell but our first NF T cell was in

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2020 with a work by Robert Alice, the artist, and there was

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code in the work and we actually NFT some of the code that was

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embedded in the work. The people sale though was not even

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arguably is our most well known and ft sale probably is the The

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most well known NFC sale, if I might be so bold, and, you know

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that came came to us through a lot of hard work that the team

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here at Christie's did, we have an extremely passionate,

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curious, thoughtful group of specialists who had been

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researching the space been really curious about the space

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and engaging with the NF T space. And I think curiosity and

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engagement and the NF T space are two of the most important

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tools for success in that space, and really listening and thought

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that it made a lot of sense. I mean, I think we are primarily

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at our core about art in all of its format. So whether that

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format is paint brushes or pixels, we are a platform for

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great art to come to bear and to succeed. And we just couldn't

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ignore this groundswell around NF T's. And so we partnered with

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makers place and we did some digging into this artist people

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aka Mike Winckelmann. And he was nothing if not prolific, I think

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his first 5000 days is an opus, where he, you know, created

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artwork every day for 5000 days. And not only that, but then to

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put that artwork out there into social media, which is notorious

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for abject criticism, and kind of bare your soul out there and

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let people critique you anonymously. I have no idea how

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he does it, he must have the thickest skin of all of us. And

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I think, you know, love it or hate it all artists objective,

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you have to admire the grit that went into a project like that.

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And we did. And so a group of us came together, and we decided we

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wanted to move forward with it. And not only do we want to do

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the NFT sale, we want to do the sale, accepting crypto, which

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was another yet another hurdle. We never wanted to market to a

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whole new audience. Even

Lindsay Poss:

thought about that. It's so obvious, but Yeah,

Lindsay Poss:

completely new system to implement.

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And I was purchased in eath. And to market it to a

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whole new group of people. You asked the very thoughtful

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question, you know, who are the buyers and the buyers for our

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NFT works of which we sold in 2021? Over $150 million with NF

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T's. They are overwhelmingly the crypto native audience. They are

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digital creators. They are not our traditional art audience

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that has kind of swung the pendulum into the crypto and

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digital world with a few exceptions. When we sold some

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Andy Warhol NF T's when we sold some more traditional artists

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that had dipped their toes into the NFT space. We saw a little

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bit of crossover, but by and large, they are folks from the

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from the digital art and NFT space. So we had to market to

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them, which was a big challenge.

Lindsay Poss:

It was going to be my exact question was you as a

Lindsay Poss:

marketer, how were you thinking about reaching these folks?

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Well, it was in the heyday of clubhouse, remember

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when clubhouse was all

Lindsay Poss:

very brief moment in time.

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I know what it was like, oh my god, we have to be

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on clubhouse. How are we gonna get channeled? Invited was like

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the thing. And so we were there. We were on club palace. We were

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doing clubhouse chats like, you know, a couple of times a week

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and we were getting invited to different club houses to talk

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about it. And I just remember when the sale was happening. We

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were all to did a clubhouse hearing people like live chat

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about the sale and the numbers that were being breached and it

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was so exciting. But yeah, we we were on clubhouse we got really

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engaged on Twitter because that is where our crypto native

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community is. A few of us are on Discord kind of on different

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channels. But it's more personally and not like as a

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firm and we just stay engaged with the community. You know, I

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do a lot of speaking a lot of our specialists do a lot of

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speaking we go to NF T and yc and f t now Denver NFT ala like

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we you know, we get a lot of these conferences and, and

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panels and make sure that we are out there talking the talk and

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also helping to demystify what NF T's are so that it's not only

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accessible to our crypto native NFT collectors, but also more

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traditional art collectors. I was on a panel at the Aspen

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Institute not too long ago, which was attended solely by

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traditional art collectors trying to understand more about

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the NFT space I think a lot of people are interested in afraid

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to ask. So you know, making sure we're educating people about the

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space.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, not from the art world but from my own

Lindsay Poss:

personal world. I have so many friends who are just not

Lindsay Poss:

interested in crypto and yet all I know many, many people who

Lindsay Poss:

Like Funko Pops, and I came up with a personal rule that if you

Lindsay Poss:

own a Funko Pop, you're not allowed to make fun of anyone

Lindsay Poss:

who purchases. To me, right? It's, you know, there's there's

Lindsay Poss:

a whole, a whole crowd of people out there looking to collect and

Lindsay Poss:

be part of a community in various ways and various

Lindsay Poss:

expressions, and with everything else moving online, I'm not sure

Lindsay Poss:

why that type of community building, collecting, being part

Lindsay Poss:

of something purchasing assets wouldn't be also moving online

Lindsay Poss:

in some form or fashion. So agree. Yes.

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And I think and I didn't answer this part of your

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question, but you mentioned digital ownership. And it's a

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really important part of the equation, right? Because when we

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sold to people, and kind of every time we sell an NF, T,

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someone makes the argument about right, save, right, click Save.

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Yep. And to that argument, I say, you know, we're selling,

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Andy Warhol is Marilyn Monroe, it's gonna sell for hundreds of

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millions of dollars, you can go buy a poster out of it at Barnes

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and Noble. And they are not the same thing. And so

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fundamentally, physical, and digital, it all comes down to

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the question of ownership. And you have to subscribe to the

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idea that there is something special and important and

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meaningful about ownership, whether in a digital realm or in

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a physical realm. And I believe in that. And I think the people

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that are in the NFT community, believe in that. And not only do

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they believe in the concept of ownership, but they also believe

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kind of in this greater Metaverse concept that in a

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future where we spend more and more of our time in some

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meaningful way, we digital environment, owning a lot of

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these kind of digital artifacts will be akin to owning a lot of

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the traditional artifacts that Christie's is known for selling.

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So if you own you know, Jean Michel Basquiat when he was an

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up and coming artist, kind of what you're doing when you own a

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crypto punk right now, when a small percentage of Yeah, it's

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still really, really expensive youth but it's only in 20 years.

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So

Lindsay Poss:

I know, it was so silly to me that that, you know,

Lindsay Poss:

we've translated so much of our lives online already. I don't

Lindsay Poss:

think anyone wants to go back to you know, paper billing and

Lindsay Poss:

sending in bills. So why wouldn't other types of

Lindsay Poss:

ownership I wouldn't other types of assets, why wouldn't other

Lindsay Poss:

types of just community because a lot of NF T communities, I

Lindsay Poss:

sort of think of almost like sports teams, you know, you're

Lindsay Poss:

you're purchasing an asset, you're becoming part of

Lindsay Poss:

something you're talking, you're trading with other fans, you're

Lindsay Poss:

discussing us drops, it's so similar to me to any other type

Lindsay Poss:

of fandom. And there's collectibles associated with it

Lindsay Poss:

the thing with those collectibles associated with any

Lindsay Poss:

traditional sports team, a greater instead of buying a

Lindsay Poss:

jersey, or you're buying an NFT of something that that team has

Lindsay Poss:

created, I can't understand well, I suppose I can sort of

Lindsay Poss:

understand the resistance, because there's been a lot of

Lindsay Poss:

scammy and scummy things that have gone on. And there's been

Lindsay Poss:

unfortunately only press attention on those, I think. So

Lindsay Poss:

hopefully, in the next you know, one to five years, the press

Lindsay Poss:

attention can can sort of refocus. And people can become

Lindsay Poss:

more comfortable with this idea. I think there's just a lot of

Lindsay Poss:

negativity surrounding it. It's like, either you take the time

Lindsay Poss:

to sit down and know it or you just read headlines and think

Lindsay Poss:

there's a lot of scammy stuff happening which there is and

Lindsay Poss:

just write it all off whole whole sale hold Full Tilt.

Lindsay Poss:

That's the word I'm looking for. So kind of silly. Um, but

Lindsay Poss:

anyways, I want to getting back to our discussion. How what is

Lindsay Poss:

the balance that you see happening in the future between

Lindsay Poss:

digital sales and real world sales at Christie's? As in I

Lindsay Poss:

imagined the digital is growing. But do you ever see that

Lindsay Poss:

overtaking the real world ownership sales of goods?

Unknown:

I do not. And I say that with confidence, based on

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the fact that you know, I said we did $150 million in NF T

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sales last year for perspective. We did 7.1 billion in total.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah. We're not there yet.

Unknown:

So you know, I think, I think as with anything we sell

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at Christie's, we will always continue to sell the most

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covetable, most rare, most exclusive and fts. And I expect

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that that will still keep us somewhere in the realm of that

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100 and $50 million mark for the foreseeable future. I'm not you

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know, if I had a crystal ball, I wouldn't be sitting here. I'd be

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sitting in my private jet somewhere or on my private

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island somewhere, but I think Did you know it's gonna take a

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long long while for NF T's to reach the level of maturation

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where there's enough of them out there at enough of a price point

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to capture the tipping point in sales, because I think, not only

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in masterpiece are but in, you know, jewelry in rare books and

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manuscripts and old master paintings and Asian art, you

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know, we do a whole raft of other items that comprise our

Unknown:

sales. And so I think, you know, to put into perspective, that

Unknown:

100 and $50 million in NFT, sales couldn't be one painting

Unknown:

and an evening sale for us at this level. So it's a lot. But

Unknown:

it's also a little sometimes.

Lindsay Poss:

Right? Well, that's what I'm wondering when I

Lindsay Poss:

agree with you, I don't think it's going to be a quite a long

Lindsay Poss:

while before you get before digital ownership surpasses real

Lindsay Poss:

world goods, I just wonder how quickly or slowly that is going

Lindsay Poss:

to grow into a easily noticeable portion, you know, like, when

Lindsay Poss:

when does it reach the 1 billion mark, or the 2 billion mark? Or

Unknown:

what I would say is, I think there's over don't quote

Unknown:

me on this, but I think there's quite a large amount of sales, I

Unknown:

want to say over a billion dollars of sales being

Unknown:

transacted on the other platforms like nifty gateway,

Unknown:

open sea and the rest of it. So I think digital ownership is

Unknown:

quite a expansive marketplace, I would just say that at the top

Unknown:

echelon, yet and established volume, because we're we're

Unknown:

dealing with a volume of art that has been established over

Unknown:

the last, you know, I would say 500 years to go around rare art

Unknown:

and object, I think there is a huge volume of NF T sales in the

Unknown:

hundreds of millions, if not billions happening. But that's

Unknown:

at all levels. And at Christie's we're only ever to transact at

Unknown:

the top level.

Lindsay Poss:

That makes sense. I'm wondering when that economy

Lindsay Poss:

is going to, it's already developing. But I'm wondering

Lindsay Poss:

when it's going to get out of its nascent stages, just because

Lindsay Poss:

we also have a lot more people who are a lot more connected in

Lindsay Poss:

ways that are conducive to building an NFT economy. More so

Lindsay Poss:

than you know, we've talked about 500 years, but there

Lindsay Poss:

wasn't necessarily a huge cadre of highly talented artists,

Lindsay Poss:

either, you know, you were talking about maybe the top

Lindsay Poss:

point 2% of art and artists out there. And I'm just I wonder how

Lindsay Poss:

that's going to work with all of us being digitally inclined now.

Lindsay Poss:

And especially younger generations? Like how quickly

Lindsay Poss:

you know, instead of taking 500 years, I wonder if it'll take

Lindsay Poss:

100 Or yeah, 150, or what that's gonna look like. But I want to

Lindsay Poss:

get more into this sort of supply problem. Because I saw a

Lindsay Poss:

recent listing about the sale of an NFT of the first edit to

Lindsay Poss:

Wikipedia, immediately following its establishment. And that

Lindsay Poss:

featured interactive element that allowed the purchaser to

Lindsay Poss:

recreate the experience of developing Wikipedia, which I

Lindsay Poss:

thought was so cool. And I thought it was pretty neat that

Lindsay Poss:

the NFT outsold the original computer that Wikipedia was

Lindsay Poss:

created on. I think that does make sense in terms of Wikipedia

Lindsay Poss:

as a digital products of the digital good would outsell a

Lindsay Poss:

physical good. But it's still it's still interesting to note

Lindsay Poss:

that the digital good did markedly better than the

Lindsay Poss:

physical good. And we've seen similar in FTAs. You know, Jack

Lindsay Poss:

Dorsey's first tweet, sold, the New York Times article, it was

Lindsay Poss:

part of an experiment sold as an NF. T. So we talked about this

Lindsay Poss:

volume problem, what kinds of different things are you excited

Lindsay Poss:

to see? So we we definitely have art and artwork as a type,

Lindsay Poss:

definitely have this sort of like, I don't know exactly how

Lindsay Poss:

to call it but tech bookmarking? That's sort of a type of NFT.

Lindsay Poss:

But are there any other ones, you know, partners with luxury

Lindsay Poss:

fashion brands? Or? I don't know anything? Is there anything out

Lindsay Poss:

there that you think like, oh, I can't wait until this sort of

Lindsay Poss:

becomes a digital good or I'm really excited to see the way

Lindsay Poss:

this digital good develops?

Unknown:

Yeah, that's a great question. So we sold that NFT of

Unknown:

Wikipedia for 750 grand and that was that was that was Biglan it

Unknown:

was really exciting. What I can't wait to see NF T is my

Unknown:

COVID vaccination card that I carry around little scraps of

Unknown:

paper everywhere. It's like everyone has that important

Unknown:

papers or where it's like your social security card and like

Unknown:

your it's like do not laminate but we all like you know, live

Unknown:

in fear of losing it and it's like my marriage certificate, my

Unknown:

kids birth certificates like, you know, all these forms that

Unknown:

are just like tattered pieces of paper that I use. usually end up

Unknown:

having to pay the government to issue me a new one because I've

Unknown:

lost it lives in our special paper drawer. I can't wait to

Unknown:

see all of those become digital goods on the blockchain. I think

Unknown:

there are a number of different applications out there that we

Unknown:

haven't even scratched the surface have we sold last year,

Unknown:

our first luxury NFT that was in the form of an NF T of the

Unknown:

bulletproof vest that Kanye West wore during his live performance

Unknown:

of his Donta album or toe into that space. But I see luxury

Unknown:

brands are really leaning into Metaverse, specifically when it

Unknown:

comes to gaming. Because there's already user behaviors built in

Unknown:

there right? In gaming, people are already really comfortable

Unknown:

with the purchase of goods and services in gaming. They're

Unknown:

really comfortable with the idea of skins in gaming. And so to be

Unknown:

able to kind of like up level that into a luxury. A luxury

Unknown:

skin makes total sense. And I think luxury brands are starting

Unknown:

to catch on to that there's like going to be a Metaverse arm to

Unknown:

Fashion Week. experiments going on that I think will be really

Unknown:

interesting. Um, and, you know, there's been lots of great

Unknown:

applications for sports fandom and sports memorabilia and NF

Unknown:

T's. What am I I think for me, I'm I'm most looking forward to

Unknown:

the utility aspects of it.

Lindsay Poss:

I believe that answer? Yeah, I

Unknown:

think, you know, like, there's fun stuff out there. And

Unknown:

like Ray and I have like, some NF T's in my wallet that have

Unknown:

kind of promised this ongoing membership aspect that it's like

Unknown:

once you have access to this initial token, kind of all of

Unknown:

our drops and subsequent builds, you will have access to and

Unknown:

that's exciting from like a kind of like mystery grab bag

Unknown:

perspective. And like I'm part of a community and I don't

Unknown:

really know how it's gonna evolve. But I'm, I bought into

Unknown:

it, that's exciting. But utility, like, Give me something

Unknown:

that instead of holding, like all these membership, papers, I

Unknown:

can just have it on the blockchain never have to think

Unknown:

about it again. That's, that's, that's what will make this girl

Unknown:

happy.

Lindsay Poss:

That's so funny to me. Because one of the things

Lindsay Poss:

that I worked on, or that I one of the people that I talked to

Lindsay Poss:

at a previous job was about cartitles, and putting them on

Lindsay Poss:

the blockchain to make the sale and transfer of cars

Lindsay Poss:

significantly easier. For everyone involved. Yes, I also

Lindsay Poss:

am looking forward to the utility aspect. One of the early

Lindsay Poss:

people that I followed, we started really talking about the

Lindsay Poss:

NFT space in 2019. And mentioned the exact same thing about

Lindsay Poss:

marriages as well imagine call recording your marriage and

Lindsay Poss:

blockchain instead of having to send in a marriage license. So

Lindsay Poss:

yes, I do think that there is a huge practical side that is

Lindsay Poss:

untapped. And I heard someone describe this as a, what could

Lindsay Poss:

be considered a boring transition into web three, and

Lindsay Poss:

to how we think about our online presence and to how we collect

Lindsay Poss:

and use digital goods should be probably a little bit more

Lindsay Poss:

boring than the current news suggests. I agree. But I like

Lindsay Poss:

you hope that all those practical matters that can be

Lindsay Poss:

addressed by this technology begin to get addressed with this

Lindsay Poss:

technology. I want to backtrack for just a second, though,

Lindsay Poss:

because we had a previous call where you talked a lot about

Lindsay Poss:

your work ethic, and where your background, your family, where

Lindsay Poss:

you came from, and how it made a big impact to you to think about

Lindsay Poss:

you being in the position you're in and being a role model for

Lindsay Poss:

other younger girls and women who may not have always seen

Lindsay Poss:

people who looked like you. And I know that you mentioned that

Lindsay Poss:

you didn't see very many people that looked like you in the

Lindsay Poss:

positions that you have been in, and will continue to be in. But

Lindsay Poss:

I wanted to address that really quick because this is the man or

Lindsay Poss:

woman podcast. So I wanted to just ask you what it's going to

Lindsay Poss:

actually look like, you know, we have all this future tech, all

Lindsay Poss:

this exciting stuff. But how are we going to make sure we start

Lindsay Poss:

truly diversifying the workforce at all levels and getting more

Lindsay Poss:

role models in there and getting more people involved?

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, it's so important, Lindsay, and I think

Unknown:

my parents were immigrants to this country. And you know, I

Unknown:

think that that is such a special journey and such a

Unknown:

special part of my story and a part that I always tell people,

Unknown:

I am, you know, just celebrated the Persian New Year in March,

Unknown:

and I celebrate my culture, and it's something I have two young

Unknown:

girls that I'm gonna raise them with as well. And I take I take

Unknown:

pride in that. And I want everyone from any walk of life,

Unknown:

whether it be cultural diversity, whether it be you

Unknown:

know, gender diversity, whether that be, you know, whatever it

Unknown:

is not however you identify, to feel like there's a path for

Unknown:

you, and to feel like you have an authentic place in

Unknown:

leadership. And so, for me, I heard someone say it so

Unknown:

beautifully. I was on a panel for a National Women's Day. And

Unknown:

the woman on the panel with me said it's simple In a model

Unknown:

messiness, and I could not agree with that more, I think it is

Unknown:

not something that we can just pretend that our lives fit into

Unknown:

these neat little boxes. And that I'm working at a and that

Unknown:

at home. I'm mom Mehta, and I'm wife Neda, and I'm Iranian,

Unknown:

American meta, and I'm, you know, all these different

Unknown:

versions of that I am all those versions of meta wrapped into

Unknown:

one ball. And I think I'm at my best when all those versions of

Unknown:

meta come to the party. And so I try and be as authentically me

Unknown:

as I can. And I try and encourage those around me to be

Unknown:

as authentically them as they can by modeling that messiness

Unknown:

by saying, You know what, I gotta go, I told you, I need to

Unknown:

leave this, this podcast a few minutes early, because my

Unknown:

parents are in town, and I want to go show them the gallery

Unknown:

downstairs. And that's really important to me. So I gotta go

Unknown:

do that today. And you know, I'm going to be really excited about

Unknown:

that and proud about that. And some days, I need to leave a

Unknown:

meeting early to go pick up my kids because I need to show up

Unknown:

as mom Netta. And then I hopped back on a call later on that

Unknown:

evening, because I gotta be working at and, you know, it's,

Unknown:

it's all a part of who we are. And I think modeling that

Unknown:

messiness, instead of trying to pretend there's any attainable

Unknown:

perfection is really important. And then I think when you see

Unknown:

those women around you, letting them be comfortable and

Unknown:

confident with them, talking about that messiness, and then

Unknown:

also celebrating them and promoting them. Like, I don't

Unknown:

just want to like high five ladies, I want to give ladies

Unknown:

raises, I want to give ladies opportunities, I want to give

Unknown:

ladies speaking roles I want to give ladies, like, you know, all

Unknown:

of those great things that people saw in me that helped me

Unknown:

get to where I am, I want to give those opportunities to

Unknown:

people, because it's one thing to say, like I celebrate you,

Unknown:

but it's another thing to say, You know what I'm gonna sit this

Unknown:

pitch out. And I'm going to pull my colleague into this pitch,

Unknown:

because she's got a really powerful voice that I know that

Unknown:

if you guys see that you will see her in a different light.

Unknown:

And that's actually doing something with my voice instead

Unknown:

of just saying she's great.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, I think that's so important. I think

Lindsay Poss:

it's important to because, unfortunately, we do sort of

Lindsay Poss:

carry the burden sometimes of forcing attention onto our

Lindsay Poss:

female colleagues, and especially women of color. And

Lindsay Poss:

this is a theme that's come up over and over, but it does take

Lindsay Poss:

bravery for people to look and listen to people who don't look

Lindsay Poss:

like them. It takes a lot of it takes bravery to step outside of

Lindsay Poss:

your comfort zone. And it takes the wherewithal to realize when

Lindsay Poss:

you need to do so. And sometimes having that extra push of like,

Lindsay Poss:

paying attention time is the push that's necessary. So yes, I

Lindsay Poss:

love, love the idea of standing up for women. And I hope as we

Lindsay Poss:

move into more of a Metaverse and, and NFT, VR, and AR all

Lindsay Poss:

those spaces that we can have more women creators, and writers

Lindsay Poss:

and in positions of power and all of that. Well, with that in

Lindsay Poss:

mind, I know you have to run soon. So I'm going to just

Lindsay Poss:

quickly summarize our conversation. We started with an

Lindsay Poss:

awesome, awesome discussion about how Christie's has moved

Lindsay Poss:

into online, just so cool. I mean, the whole, I have not been

Lindsay Poss:

this close to the luxury auction industry in my life. So

Lindsay Poss:

extremely fun for me to learn about that and to learn about

Lindsay Poss:

how you all adapted during the pandemic. And some of the

Lindsay Poss:

virtual tools that you're gonna wind up keeping in your arsenal,

Lindsay Poss:

like VR and AR experiences is really neat. Especially think

Lindsay Poss:

it's cool that you can use AR to model some of the things that

Lindsay Poss:

people might be purchasing in their own homes. It's very, very

Lindsay Poss:

intelligent use of the technology. We also talked a lot

Lindsay Poss:

about NFT sales. One thing that I thought was really interesting

Lindsay Poss:

was about how it kind of brought in a completely different crowd

Lindsay Poss:

for you to market to, as it were, and how it's a crowd of

Lindsay Poss:

full of cryptocurrency natives, so not necessarily the typical

Lindsay Poss:

art crowd, but definitely a little bit different. And now

Lindsay Poss:

you're getting some cross contamination between the

Lindsay Poss:

typical art and the crypto natives and back and forth,

Lindsay Poss:

which is pretty neat. We also talked about how NF T's can be

Lindsay Poss:

used for practical and impractical things, which I

Lindsay Poss:

think is really important to note. There's a lot of

Lindsay Poss:

negativity surrounding the technology itself, when really

Lindsay Poss:

the options are pretty boundless at this point, so I think I

Lindsay Poss:

think I can confidently say that both of us are pretty excited to

Lindsay Poss:

see what happens within the NFT space in the next 510 20 years.

Lindsay Poss:

And the last thing we talked about was making sure that we

Lindsay Poss:

boost women colleagues, it can be hard, I'm in some of the

Lindsay Poss:

environments we're in for women to get attention. So we have to

Lindsay Poss:

not only talk about it, but be about it and put women forward

Lindsay Poss:

for things when they have earned and deserve it. So I like to end

Lindsay Poss:

every episode with one special section called a moment of

Lindsay Poss:

reflection. It's just a chance for you to look back on your

Lindsay Poss:

career. offer any pieces of advice you might have to women

Lindsay Poss:

who are looking to take the same nonlinear path that you did, or

Lindsay Poss:

are in bits and pieces of it. But what is one thing you would

Lindsay Poss:

like to tell your younger self about getting into the tech

Lindsay Poss:

industry and being successful? It's

Unknown:

not specific to tech, but I think just specific to

Unknown:

life, there's two pieces of advice I would give my younger

Unknown:

self and everyone's younger self. The first is take the

Lindsay Poss:

risks,

Unknown:

I think, you know, women tend to be more risk

Unknown:

averse. And we tend to take the safer path, myself included. And

Unknown:

there's lots of rewards and the risks and you do regret the

Unknown:

risks you don't take. And right now I see so many different and

Unknown:

interesting paths to success. If you take NF T's for an example,

Unknown:

that is not a linear and traditional path to financial

Unknown:

success, but those who are taking those risks are finding

Unknown:

oftentimes success. And I want those risk takers to also be

Unknown:

women. Much like the traditional art world, it is a highly white

Unknown:

male worlds in the NFT space. And so there are so many lovely

Unknown:

female led projects, you know, you have archived from world of

Unknown:

women, Lisa from Boss beauties, you know, Varvara, les from

Unknown:

flowergirl, NF T's. They're amazing projects out there, but

Unknown:

they are few and far between. And we have more female voices

Unknown:

and NF T's, or whatever it is take those risks. And the second

Unknown:

thing I would say is you are the CEO of your own career, no one

Unknown:

is going to be a better advocate for what you need than you are.

Unknown:

So anytime you can speak up for yourself. Ask for the raises,

Unknown:

ask for the opportunities, have a voice at the table, you don't

Unknown:

ask you don't get. And you know, I think it is really important

Unknown:

to push beyond that discomfort of an initial ask into an

Unknown:

uncomfortable conversation that can result in a better

Unknown:

opportunity, more pay more chances, more ways to grow, or

Unknown:

at least the acknowledgement that you're ready for that next

Unknown:

step. And it's really, really important to be a vocal advocate

Unknown:

for your own career. Because no one else out there is going to

Unknown:

do it for you, as well as you can do it for yourself. There

Unknown:

might be people out there advocating for you. But no one's

Unknown:

going to do it for you better than you can. So be your own.

Unknown:

See.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on.

Lindsay Poss:

Where can people find you follow you follow your work, follow

Lindsay Poss:

Christie's

Unknown:

my instagram handle is super complicated. It's my

Unknown:

maiden name. It's at NAMM Iranian and a m i RANIAN. But

Unknown:

that's where all my good content is. And I would love for anyone

Unknown:

to follow me there and see all the great stuff we do at

Unknown:

Christie's see all the great stuff I do with my passion and

Unknown:

my girls and my life. And that's where all the good stuff is. And

Unknown:

please feel free to DM me. I'm always happy to grab a coffee or

Unknown:

have a chat with anyone who's trying to find their path.

Lindsay Poss:

Oh, thank you so much. For all of our listeners.

Lindsay Poss:

Be sure you leave those five star ratings and reviews. Check

Lindsay Poss:

out other holodeck media podcasts including meta business

Lindsay Poss:

and the business of esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and

Lindsay Poss:

LinkedIn at Lindsay at Lindsay POS. And you can catch me

Lindsay Poss:

Wednesday nights on the business of esports live after show. This

Lindsay Poss:

podcast will be in your feed every Tuesday. We'll see you

Lindsay Poss:

next week.

Unknown:

Thanks for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to

Unknown:

subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your

Unknown:

podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your friends,

Unknown:

family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to follow

Unknown:

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Unknown:

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About the Podcast

META Woman
Weekly metaverse content - for women, by women
Meta Woman will focus on addressing the issues, opportunities, and challenges facing women in the development of the Metaverse. Top female executives and business people operating within the gaming and crypto industries bring a wide range of perspectives through regular guest appearances.