Episode 22

full
Published on:

3rd May 2022

22. Holiday Party to Mario Party

Wonderful friend and role model Angela Dalton, CEO & Founder of Signum Growth Capital, joins me for today's episode! We dive into Metaverse chat, with topics like Zoom leapfrogging us into metaverse-like experiences by allowing multiple sensory points, how economies are being shifted from offline worlds, and NFTs as a window into engagement/programmable royalties for artists. Angela describes her incredibly successful career, and the women supporting women support network she heads. As for actionable development, we talk about being in an environment where you are believed is critical, thanking the positive role models, bringing other women up and starting support groups for each other.

Transcript
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Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now.

Lindsay Poss:

Hello, and welcome to the meta woman podcast part

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of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your host, Lindsay

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the boss pause, and from struggle to success for covering

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it all. Are all of our returning listeners. Thank you so much for

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listening for sending me comments. I'd love reading

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those. They're supporting the show. It's been so wonderful to

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have feedback from you all. And to all the new listeners out

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there. Welcome. I hope you enjoy this as much as the feedback

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I've been getting. That's for sure. My guest today is someone

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that I've been fortunate to meet through both on and offline

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connections, which has been so great, we, we have some really

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wonderful mutual friends. I'm just delighted to be working

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with this woman. And I'm so excited to introduce Angela

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Dalton CEO and founder of signum growth capital. Angela is a

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rockstar in the world of crypto and gaming. Way too many

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accolades to name here, one that was recently announced is that

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she has officially joined the board of directors at FaZe Clan,

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as she calls it, the creme de la creme of the esports brands.

Lindsay Poss:

Angela, I can't wait to dig more into your background and just

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talk more about the things that you've been working on. But just

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to start, could you give kind of a overview of who you are, what

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you do the high points of your career and all that good stuff.

Lindsay Poss:

Sure. Thank

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you so much for having me, Lindsay. This is really

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exciting. After listening to a few of your shows, so far, there

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are several of them. And I I'd say that my career started in

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the traditional finance world so and I was always in technology.

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So in a traditional investment bank, as a technology

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specialist, touched both investment banking, equity

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research, sales and trading. And again, always is kind of the, in

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the trenches expert on the tech space. And in 2003. So I started

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going to eat three's video game show in 2000, I think, one or

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two, and then it was either 2003 or 2004. When the week came out,

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and I was going time for me, yeah. Oh, no way, I couldn't

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believe that little demo booth. And I just played and played and

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played, I was playing tennis I was, you know, doing dance apps.

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I mean, I was just having so much fun. And it was, it was

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around that time that I started thinking, you know, I'm kind of

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in this in this world of traditional media. And also in

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this world where, you know, big investment banks, where people,

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you know, media was a huge sector. And everyone wanted to

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really flocked to cover these media companies in an in depth

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way, and mostly old, old media companies, legacy media

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companies. And to be honest, I kind of thought, wow, gaming is

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so much more interesting. And also, by the way, nobody's going

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there. So I don't have to fight for it. And, and so over the

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years, you know, I really dug into this concept that, you

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know, TV advertising, what is going on here, there are still

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today $160 billion of TV advertising a year. And I always

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say that it is there's this window called the TV screen. And

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there are $160 billion being thrown through this screen to

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empty living rooms. And it's it's amazing that that can do

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you know continues to happen even today. If you look at

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Gartner and other industry groups, they've project that

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that spending level will remain the same. And so, you know, for

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years, even though, you know, really getting into gaming, and

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I knew I knew this gamer mentality, which was anti

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amortizing and I agree with it wholeheartedly. I was always

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kind of fascinated with what could actually get to real

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engagement. So that's one big thing that always drove me do is

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that even though I did all of tech media Telecom, most of my

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career, I've always gravitated to the cut most cutting edge

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tech, which brought me into bitcoin brought me into esports

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I was the first kind of, you know, sell side wall street

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type, who covered esports as an analyst, and did kind of the big

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deep dive primer, which was before Overwatch launched and,

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and then got into Bitcoin, you know, got into, you know, just

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various technologies to try to figure them out. So those are

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really That's really kind of what drove me. And then what,

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you know, we went to, I left to go to Evercore partners as a co

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founder of the equities business, and managing the tech

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media telecom sector. And, and was, was allowed to have that

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was the first moment where I was allowed to kind of stop running

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as fast as I could and, and really, like think we meet and

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my partners and I, we all thought about, like, you know,

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bringing in 87 people, we were running fast, but it was really

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much more stand back and think strategically about, you know,

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the business etc. And so we ended up building that business,

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which was great. There was an exit moment, which took me to

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Guggenheim Guggenheim allowed me to really just lean into my

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passions, which is emerging tech. And then I was I met the

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gentleman who finalized the ERC 721 standard for NF Ts.

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And that was about a year after I listened to Tim Sweeney's

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presentation on the metaverse and the two of those together

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resulted in a major epiphany, which was NF T's had the ability

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or the potential to solve a problem that had been that

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existed in gaming for decades. Meaning, you know, people buy

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sell and trade assets in the game for, you know, for a long,

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very long time, excuse me, and they had not, there wasn't

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really a way to do that in a in a way that the publishers and

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publishers sanction way. And that, so I thought, wow, you

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know, NF T's could be that window, that instead of the TV

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screen, there could be a new window that brands could look

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through and actually find real engagement on the other side,

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and, and provide creators a way to actually own their creations

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and to take more of the higher percentage of the value that

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they read. So I left to start to new growth capital. And that's

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all we do. We focus on this intersection of crypto gaming.

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Culture, I call it crypto meets culture. So anything mass market

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needs, meets crypto.

Lindsay Poss:

Okay, well, there's a billion things to pull

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on there. But I want to give a brief shout out to E three,

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because I love it that was you know, that used to be such a

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such a center for gaming. So it's kind of cool. gaming

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industry is a little bit strange to me in the fact that

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conferences are so important. I have not worked in another

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industry where I thought conferences were such a good

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place to meet gathered, talk about ideas. And the

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second little crypto conference, Lindsay,

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I am positive it's very So as someone who has been

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to gaming conferences that delve into crypto, I mean, the Twitter

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communities alone for crypto are like out of this world. I can't

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even imagine the real life. And then a second little shot I

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wanted to give is that Did you see the news about Wii Sports

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coming to switch? Because I have heard nothing but good things

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about it. And then it's even more realistic and even more

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fun. And you can do two v two in your own living room and all

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kinds of stuff. I love it. So be on the lookout for that. Yeah,

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I'm actually really looking forward to potentially demoing

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it or getting it soon here. I'm also a big wii sports fan. But

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want to go back a little bit because you started starting in

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investment, banking and working in the investment world for a

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whole portion of your career. And I know that you said you

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always kind of were in the emerging technology business,

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and you definitely walked through kind of the things that

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you're into now. But what has been the thing that's kept you

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on emerging technology for so long? What excites you about all

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the change and the growth that you've been seeing in the

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emerging tech, starting, you know, at E three in 2001, all

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the way up into Tim Sweeney in the metaverse and now into

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signum growth.

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Honestly, curiosity probably and the I'm I'm

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passionate about figuring out behavior change. I know that

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sounds a little weird, but it's and I didn't really realize I

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was passionate about it. But until I started seeing really my

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kids you know I have kids I have little brothers that are 15 ish

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years younger than me I've got kids that range from 20 to 10

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Believe it or not, so we've got a lot of generations going on

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around me and and I've always loved you know, I've always

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loved to just watch behavior change and try to figure out

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what it means for culture shifts and you know, my son when he was

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11 a lot of most people who know me know this story came to me

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and and told me He was going to start mining Bitcoin. And it was

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the biggest kind of argument that we had gotten.

Lindsay Poss:

Ah, that is a fair statement from an 11 year old.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah,

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Dad, I don't know anything about that yet. And

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anyway, we negotiated and he instead built a Minecraft server

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and ran his own Minecraft server. And that was when

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Minecraft had just come out. This is like, maybe, recently

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come out, it was like 2012. And so he. So that caught my

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attention. I started watching him play Minecraft and thinking

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this is not what I've seen before. This is your friend,

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there's no bad guy, there's no you know what I mean? And yeah,

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who was just a lot of building and constructing. And then I

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also saw this, this shift in his own relationship with his

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friends and his own ability to communicate, he was, you know,

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all of a sudden on Skype all the time, quickly articulating his

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thoughts, which I hadn't seen him do. And I saw so many

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benefits from this creativity and collaboration like that.

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creativity, collaboration, and, and, you know, just the, the

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ways the the negotiations that were happening, all of those

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felt like pretty big behavioral shifts for that generation. And

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he's now 20. And, and so that was a big, that was a big one

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for me. He did, he did, but he was a gold rank League of

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Legends player, which, you know, most moms don't brag about, but

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I brag about that all the time.

Lindsay Poss:

Why not? I think we're finally getting to the

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point where everyone's bragging about those kinds of

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achievements.

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That was also like, you know, the, the team aspect of

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it, the, you know, and then my daughter who is more of a analog

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artist, she is not. She's not digital, she's analog, but just

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this collaboration and creativity. And Tim Sweeney is,

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you know, kind of mantra of, you know, developers to the front of

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the line creators to the front of the line. That's a big

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cultural shift and beverage.

Lindsay Poss:

So what do you think about and this is a little

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off topic, but what do you think about offices in the metaverse,

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then I've seen a lot of competing ideas. One of the

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things that is a little bit odd for me is I've been working from

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home for gosh, since the beginning of March of 2020. Now

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I haven't had to go back into an office and I I frankly love

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being work from home as do I think a lot of people who have

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made that shift. And I've seen a lot now about I know that

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Facebook just announced kind of a bigger virtual office in

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horizon worlds and we're seeing more of that and I don't know

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that I would want to put on a headset in my home. I don't know

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that every experience is going to be translated well into the

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metaverse, but I'm curious to get your thoughts specifically

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on that because there is obviously an in person aspect to

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the collaboration and the creativity that I think could

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potentially be captured in the metaverse but yeah, I just I I

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would just love to get your your opinions on office life in the

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metaverse. But that's something that we talk a lot about

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entertainment. And that's the fun stuff, the exciting stuff.

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What about the kind of day to day stuff where we rely on

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communication and collaboration and creativity? Like, what does

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that look like?

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Yeah, so I I think that the uncanny valley is real. And

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I think that there's a an aspect to virtual work virtual, you

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know, activity that that I almost feel like zoom has

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leapfrogged a lot of the technology advancements that

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were made in that. Yeah, this is sounds a little strange, but I

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feel like we weren't really used to being one of many squares on

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a screen and conducting a meeting. I mean, you know, I

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remember in early COVID, my grandmother passed away very

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sadly, but we pulled off the funeral and it was authentic,

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and all of we could see each other's faces and emotions and,

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and I think for real connection to happen. I think zoom, you

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know, you know, we were zoomed into the metaverse like I always

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say that we have this we have this moment where all of a

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sudden we had multi sensory activity going on on Zoom. And I

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think that led to us wondering whether or not we had met in

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person or on or just on Zoom. And the reason we have that

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multi sensory experience is because we can see expression so

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a couple of weeks or a couple months ago so I am a theme

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developer for Ark invest and we're advisors to Ark invest and

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Kathy Boyd as well and I just love the the team and the ethos

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Is there and we have a brainstorm every Friday for two

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hours, which I would love for you to join Lindsey either very

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cool. It's really nice. It's such a mind advancing kind of

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two hours, my favorite two hours a week. And I did a an

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experiment, I created an avatar, I spent quite a bit of money on

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my avatar to look really perfect. And I, I that was my

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first meeting. And I used it there. And then I committed to

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using it for a week in meetings. And it was, it was too, it

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looked too much like me, but not enough like me that I

Lindsay Poss:

can find any belly. Yeah, might as

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well just take, like, just use Zoom, like you can see

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my face. You know, I couldn't laugh with my real smile. I

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couldn't. There were too many things that I couldn't do. And

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then there was another weird thing, which is that when other

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people were talking, my mouth was moving. That's just a

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template. But I just think that, you know, in a lot of, you know,

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Metaverse spaces without the ability to see real expression,

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I have a hard time seeing the real work environment moving in

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that direction. I mean, we have seen a few of those spaces.

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That, um, has one Eric Billy's company. But yeah, I think that,

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you know, they it's

Lindsay Poss:

V tube has been the popular one for trying to

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capture expression. But I think you're right there is. Yeah, at

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what point is it just easier to just use your human self on a

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screen versus entering an entire world. Also, this is an aside,

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but I can't, I can't believe imagine the physical side

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effects of wearing a VR goggles, and having to adjust in and out

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of different worlds for multiple hours at a time per day. I think

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that that would be a little difficult. And I don't know that

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we've necessarily explored the physical challenges of working

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in in the metaverse. As I'm sure there's plenty of research

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happening at the companies that believe in this. But I would be

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I am very curious and very excited to kind of think about

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that. Even just the strain on your eyes and what that's like.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, so there's, there's a long way to go. But I, I find the

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Zoom perspective that you gave, certainly interesting. So thank

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you for sharing that. And going back to what we're talking

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about, there is so much growth in this space. I mean, we start

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off with office space and kind of skipped over even the more

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fun parts of it, you could say. But I want to actually hear from

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you about what that growth means for people who put money into

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it. Why did you decide to build a firm around emerging tech? And

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what is the draw of the metaverse for someone who's

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examining it from an investment angle? There's so much out

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there. How do you decide? This is what this is what I think is

Lindsay Poss:

going to work this isn't?

Unknown:

That's a really great question. So we, you know, have

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organized some some funds around later stage investments. When we

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started the company, my number one goal. This kind of sounds

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strange, because everybody who knows me knows that I, you know,

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epic, Isaiah, Isaiah all the time ever games and Tim Sweeney

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are kind of my North Star in terms of the business model. And

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so we wanted to be investors. So we wanted to be investors in

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discord. We wanted to, because we think that you know, those

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two companies and there are others are really going to be

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forms for the metaverse not. Right now, there's this

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understanding of Epic Games, which people know about Unreal

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Engine, but most people think of fortnight, I don't even think

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we're gonna think about fortnight as the first well,

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fortnight will obviously clearly exist, but like, the first word

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that comes to mind won't be fortnight, it might be the

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description of the backdrop, which is like a playground where

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we have or work environment or a movie theater or you know, a lot

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of different things. And so I think from an investment

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perspective, that opens an enormous opportunity. So if I

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think about Epic Games as an example of a Metaverse backdrop,

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and I think about discord as an example of a communications

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platform, or the metaverse the it's almost like the homepage,

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the old school homepage when people used to have their WWW

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dot, you know, met a woman podcast.com page. Now that has

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moved to these Metaverse spaces. And instead of just instead of

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just looking at a website, we can actually almost be in the

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quote store with the other people who care about that store

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mingling and the cash register happens to be there. So from an

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investment perspective, it's it's it's extraordinarily

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exciting because these economies that are building up, are being

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shifted from offline worlds. And so I want to be invested in

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those spaces literally, where new economies are bubbling up,

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because I think that we've seen it, you know, we've just seen

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the Zero to One moment, you know, that from the beginning

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to, you know, this, this, this kind of, you know, bend an S

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curve in the early days is pretty dramatic. And so I what

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we are excited about, and what we're digging into, are really

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early stage, Metaverse, tools, companies and software companies

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and content creators that are doing things in a different way.

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And then really the other end of the barbell which is, which are

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these later stage backdrops for the metaverse where, where we

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believe several companies have a release.

Lindsay Poss:

That makes so much sense. I wanted to kind of

Lindsay Poss:

there's a piece I wanted to talk about a little further. Oh, and

Lindsay Poss:

that was that the nether epic announcement with Lego? And oh,

Lindsay Poss:

gosh, Sony has totally, totally blanked on the three companies

Lindsay Poss:

that were part of that now. But are you? And this is a question

Lindsay Poss:

I've asked of guests before? Are you thinking of the this is?

Lindsay Poss:

Honestly this is a consistent business pattern, we see what I

Lindsay Poss:

think is most likely to happen. Is it a pattern that's happened

Lindsay Poss:

in tech all along? Right, where you start with a bunch of

Lindsay Poss:

different companies. And then eventually a few companies

Lindsay Poss:

emerge as kind of the the dominant leaders in the space.

Lindsay Poss:

And then those companies begin acquiring the smaller companies

Lindsay Poss:

and create kind of larger conglomerates. In this matter.

Lindsay Poss:

It was easy to imagine with social media, I mean, that's

Lindsay Poss:

exactly what happened, right? We have a bunch of large platforms

Lindsay Poss:

who have been not necessarily bought up all the smaller

Lindsay Poss:

platforms and really don't want to get into an antitrust debate.

Lindsay Poss:

But by and large, innovation kind of follow these patent

Lindsay Poss:

follows these patterns of, you know, you have a ton of players.

Lindsay Poss:

And then those players get whittled down into the players

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that are really successful. And then the really successful

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players start to spur on the cycle of innovation by buying up

Lindsay Poss:

the smaller players. That's a pattern we've seen time and time

Lindsay Poss:

again. Are you thinking that with Metaverse child

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experiences, the same pattern is going to be followed? And do you

Lindsay Poss:

see a future where we have where we are engaging with multiple

Lindsay Poss:

platforms, multiple companies, or do you think that there is

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going to be and this is? This has been widely debated, but

Lindsay Poss:

that one Metaverse that we all log into the Ready Player One

Lindsay Poss:

Future have we all put on a certain headset or piece of

Lindsay Poss:

hardware and we're all in there together at the same time?

Unknown:

Can I just say really quickly that I love your style

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of interviewing because this was not one of the questions, but

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this is just and I love it.

Lindsay Poss:

For all the listeners out there. I sent a

Lindsay Poss:

list of questions. And then I asked maybe three happens every

Lindsay Poss:

time but he

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was my background. I love this question because it's

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it's actually the reverse of the old world in that I could see

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the Epic Games metaverse. And other Metaverse is like and I

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don't believe there will just be one I believe there will be

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many. And but I could see the backdrop the playground that

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whatever you want to call it. I could see that as a breeding

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ground of new exciting, entrepreneurial spirit like new

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exciting companies that instead of getting gobbled up, get born,

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you know what I mean? Like I think it's going to be a spark

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of you know that it's going to light a fire under

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entrepreneurs. I mean, it's going to bring more kids, more

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adults more people generally, to these Metaverse bases to create

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real companies that where they can make real money and they

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can, you know, hire people and create new products and sell new

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products and maybe even sell products to other companies that

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are down the road in the metaverse from them. So I view

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it as a is really the opposite of the old school gobble up

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every company and roll it in a suit. Like I call the you know

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what we all in public markets referred to with Facebook is

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just the whack a mole strategy. Like as soon as you know

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Instagram looks interesting, like you know, bang it over the

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head and that's a great bang and bringing in bang bang, you know,

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and and, and, and I think that, you know, companies like discord

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and an epic and others see, really an opportunity to create

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a breeding ground for creativity and entrepreneurial.

Lindsay Poss:

That's definitely been shown so far and it's not

Lindsay Poss:

without its own set. have issues, that's for sure. There's

Lindsay Poss:

been some really amazing reporting around that with

Lindsay Poss:

robots in particular. But I do like this idea. And this gets

Lindsay Poss:

into what this podcast is about, right that a lot of the barriers

Lindsay Poss:

are then removed, even as you mentioned, age barriers. But I

Lindsay Poss:

also think that there is a real opportunity for other barriers

Lindsay Poss:

of gender and income and race and sexual identity that can be

Lindsay Poss:

removed in a place where you're developing online tools via an

Lindsay Poss:

online platform, and not necessarily having to contend

Lindsay Poss:

with some of the real world settings that we all contend

Lindsay Poss:

with. That's been a popular topic of conversation here and

Lindsay Poss:

elsewhere. So I'm sort of enthused about that portion of,

Lindsay Poss:

of the changing way. We're thinking about tech development.

Lindsay Poss:

But getting back to one of the questions I actually did write

Lindsay Poss:

down, there's so much press around all of this, and a lot of

Lindsay Poss:

it is is very negative. I think a lot of it is kind of so funny,

Lindsay Poss:

because every time I bring up the metaverse, there's always

Lindsay Poss:

someone out there who says I had Second Life. And it's like,

Lindsay Poss:

well, I mean, yeah, that was that was a platform to enter the

Lindsay Poss:

metaverse and now we have new ones. And now we have different

Lindsay Poss:

ones. And now we have different ways of engaging. So there's no

Lindsay Poss:

problem with highlighting Second Life, but also we can think

Lindsay Poss:

beyond Second Life. Does Brazil

Unknown:

did have a really incredible foresight in

Unknown:

designing Cyprus. Super

Lindsay Poss:

cool. Yeah, I would love to give credit to

Lindsay Poss:

Second Life. I'd also love to give credit to a lot of the

Lindsay Poss:

other things that are happening without just bucketing it all

Lindsay Poss:

into Second Life. And I know that there's so much potential

Lindsay Poss:

in this space, but as an enthusiast, what do you think

Lindsay Poss:

about some of the criticisms? What are some of the positives

Lindsay Poss:

that you're excited about? Just how do you how do you contend

Lindsay Poss:

the negative and the positive balance that all out

Unknown:

is, it's really tricky in crypto right now, and in NF

Unknown:

T's and in Dows, decentralized autonomous organizations in NF

Unknown:

TS specifically, I mean, I'm obviously, you know, crypto

Unknown:

native, left, you know, left my traditional place in 2017, to

Unknown:

create a business around NF T's and gaming. And the metaverse.

Unknown:

And what we've actually seen has so far been mostly Babbie,

Unknown:

there's been some really, really exciting and creative, there

Unknown:

have been some exciting breakthroughs, true

Unknown:

breakthroughs in the technology, and a lot of the really exciting

Unknown:

things that that I referred to earlier in terms of NF T's been

Unknown:

windows into real engagement and NF T's representing, you know,

Unknown:

programmable or providing programmable royalties for

Unknown:

artists. That is that that that is happening, and that's

Unknown:

amazing. But I think that, you know, the gamer backdrop in me

Unknown:

or, you know, like the understanding of how gamers

Unknown:

think and act is, you know, the anti advertising the skepticism

Unknown:

around money grabs, is actually valid. I think that, you know,

Unknown:

the crypto industry has really needs to clean up its act in

Unknown:

terms of these run polls, and, you know, money scams, and I

Unknown:

think that, you know, Jason Citron, the CEO of Discord said

Unknown:

it best when somebody challenged him as to you know, whether or

Unknown:

not why weren't they moving into NF T's and web three. And he

Unknown:

said, we see a lot of, you know, promising, you know, aspects to

Unknown:

web three, but we were really focusing now on fixing the scam

Unknown:

spams and frauds. And I think that that will naturally evolve,

Unknown:

and here's the way I think it will naturally evolve. So right

Unknown:

now, if you are, if two or three people decide to create a

Unknown:

company, and they decide to issue a token, and they use that

Unknown:

money that they raise from issuing the token to build their

Unknown:

company, that and then they still control, they still

Unknown:

control the company, they control all the actions. That

Unknown:

and if that token is publicly traded on an exchange, for

Unknown:

example, that's no different from a company in that there is

Unknown:

there is in an information balance between the the

Unknown:

founders, and the general public, right. And there is a

Unknown:

publicly traded token that represents the ownership of that

Unknown:

of that project or company. And I think that the onus is really

Unknown:

on those founders to, you know, live out the ethos of crypto,

Unknown:

which is decentralization, in my view, and which is, you know,

Unknown:

and even if you don't believe in pure decentralization, which in

Unknown:

gaming and I don't believe that things I don't think it's

Unknown:

possible to start at As decentralized, I think things

Unknown:

naturally evolved, you know, the network's naturally evolved to

Unknown:

be decentralized. But still, in that process of moving to

Unknown:

decentralization, what we're going for here is

Unknown:

democratization like democracy, we're going for bringing in

Unknown:

people that never had access before. We're going for this

Unknown:

concept of creators and developers to the front of the

Unknown:

line, we're going for transparency. So if we're going

Unknown:

for democratization of finance, and value creation, and we're

Unknown:

going for self sovereign wealth creation, we're going for all of

Unknown:

these ideals, then we need to be we need to see founders who are

Unknown:

also transparent about their ownership, their operations. You

Unknown:

know, and and the idea that, that, you know, if you see one

Unknown:

of these pumping dumps, you know, you have to be asking, you

Unknown:

know, is, is this even what we set out to do? And the answer's

Unknown:

no, this is totally gotten off piste, in my view. So I think

Unknown:

we're gonna get there. And I think that's going to come from,

Unknown:

I think that's going to come from disclosures, better

Unknown:

communications with the public, having had a 20 year career in

Unknown:

securities, it's just really important to disclose what

Unknown:

you're doing and to have, you know, meaningful communications

Unknown:

with the public if you have a publicly traded token, which

Unknown:

represents ownership in your company.

Lindsay Poss:

So I used to work in tech policy, and there's a

Lindsay Poss:

tech policy nerd in me is just screaming with questions about

Lindsay Poss:

regulatory approaches. But I don't want to get into that,

Lindsay Poss:

because that's gonna lead us down a wild rabbit hole. And

Lindsay Poss:

that's a conversation that we can have offline, to be aware of

Lindsay Poss:

what your your congressional folks are up to when it comes to

Lindsay Poss:

the crypto space, and how they could potentially damage it with

Lindsay Poss:

some of their purchase. So everyone go look it up. If you

Lindsay Poss:

haven't already. There's some congressional folks who are

Lindsay Poss:

working on very good things, and some ones that were not so. And

Lindsay Poss:

I we will leave it at that. But I also have never heard such a

Lindsay Poss:

true explanation of growing pains that didn't relate to

Lindsay Poss:

physical ones. Because the whole time you're speaking, I couldn't

Lindsay Poss:

help but think growing pains, these are all growing pains. And

Lindsay Poss:

so hopefully, once things get bigger, there's also some

Lindsay Poss:

improvement there. I wanted to push a little bit though, on the

Lindsay Poss:

esports and gaming piece, or I'm sorry, esports and crypto piece,

Lindsay Poss:

because I want to hear from your experience, what some of those

Lindsay Poss:

Nexus points are, where the two overlap very well, we talked a

Lindsay Poss:

little bit about your skins trading kind of digital asset

Lindsay Poss:

types of things. But what other ways of you know, fan

Lindsay Poss:

engagement, player base growth, Twitch growth, event streaming

Lindsay Poss:

growth? esports Pro League, see amateur leagues, how to all of

Lindsay Poss:

those, in your mind relate to crypto, what are some of the

Lindsay Poss:

opportunities you see there?

Unknown:

Yeah, so there are so many, I'll just touch on a few.

Unknown:

So one, I think obvious one is, you know, the NBA Top Shot, like

Unknown:

the like, which is all of the moments in esports. And all of

Unknown:

the you know, whether it be you know, winning an award, whether

Unknown:

it be a great moment in gaming, whether, you know, it be, you

Unknown:

know, a great promotion, there's so many moments, and so I think

Unknown:

that all of those could be NF T's. And I think that they would

Unknown:

have the same kind of value that, you know, a three point

Unknown:

shot, you know, basketball, you know, in the basketball court

Unknown:

app. And I think that, you know, another and I also think that

Unknown:

the esports business model is challenged, I thought esports

Unknown:

would be first I really did. I thought they back in 2017 I

Unknown:

thought well esports will clearly lean into this first

Unknown:

because their business models are challenged in terms of you

Unknown:

know, making money and this is a no brainer way for them to just

Unknown:

like add on revenue at almost no cost. And you know, tokenize

Unknown:

Yeah, like you said skins digital assets. I hadn't thought

Unknown:

of moments until NBA Topshop. But and, and they haven't

Unknown:

because I think you know of the skepticism around NF Ts and the

Unknown:

money grab aspect of it, which I totally get. I think that the

Unknown:

other big thing I see is brands I see a you know, so we got

Unknown:

involved very early with mythical games in LA and I loved

Unknown:

one of my favorite moments in watching the development from

Unknown:

the seed seed seed round when I met John Linden at a at a demo

Unknown:

day in LA which was amazing. And you know from those early days

Unknown:

to now, one of my favorite moments is when they launched

Unknown:

the BLANCO called Sharpie, which was the Burberry Blanco and I

Unknown:

bought the, about the pool shoes, and I bought the

Unknown:

armbands. And the idea of having a Sharpie character in my game,

Unknown:

you know, they they sold out in seconds. And that is a big

Unknown:

shift, because it's not, it's not the kind of advertising that

Unknown:

gamers hate. And then I do not like and and the reason why I do

Unknown:

hope the metaverse evolves, or grows up in a way that is

Unknown:

completely different from, you know, the Facebook's of the

Unknown:

world and Google's in the advertising base models, I hope

Unknown:

we leave that are dead, because it creates I think advertising

Unknown:

creates this conflict of interest, this human conflict of

Unknown:

interest between creators and their fans. But I do think that

Unknown:

brand engagement in in fun, creates an inauthentic human

Unknown:

conflict of interest. Because I think that as a, you know, from

Unknown:

back in 2017, what I used to say was, I want to take my Gucci bag

Unknown:

from the holiday party to the Mario Party. And so that that

Unknown:

concept, you know, still exists, and Associates

Lindsay Poss:

pause really quick because that is an amazing way

Lindsay Poss:

of saying a Gucci bag from the holiday party to the Mario Party

Lindsay Poss:

like that is going to probably be the title of this episode.

Lindsay Poss:

That's perfect.

Unknown:

I mean, people like to identify themselves with brands

Unknown:

as a way of signaling who they are. And so I see just a huge,

Unknown:

you know, potential there, I always one of the behavioral

Unknown:

shift, thought pieces that that we wrote early on, and that I

Unknown:

got to I got to deliver to MIT students in I've done it now,

Unknown:

this coming year will be my fourth year in a row. And it's

Unknown:

about the combination of NF T's and gaming is this idea that and

Unknown:

usually half half the deck back then was mythical games, because

Unknown:

they were the only example that we have. And now we've got more

Unknown:

examples. But the idea was imagine back in, you know, when

Unknown:

I was growing up the house, or the home that I grew up in, in

Unknown:

the suburbs of Kansas City was the center of identity, it was a

Unknown:

center of status. And the radius around that house was basically,

Unknown:

you know, I could get in my car, I could drive somewhere my car

Unknown:

is identifies me and my status, I can invite people over to my

Unknown:

house, and I could, you know, lay the table with fancy China,

Unknown:

there's art on the wall, I've got my chocolate lab, you know,

Unknown:

like all these things kind of identify who I am. And when the

Unknown:

first Millennials graduated from college, Facebook was born, the

Unknown:

iPhone was born, Instagram was born, you know, these all

Unknown:

happen, you know, in succession. And all of a sudden, the center

Unknown:

of gravity for status and identity is now that little

Unknown:

rectangle in your hand, you can go to Machu Picchu, and take a

Unknown:

selfie. And all of a sudden, that's a lot more impactful than

Unknown:

having a you know, having a piece of art on the wall. And so

Unknown:

this this this explosion of mobility that we all got to

Unknown:

experience and you know, the velocity that came with that

Unknown:

with you know, if I can Rent the Runway next weekend to send it

Unknown:

back and run another dress, you know, take a selfie, um, you

Unknown:

know, here I am. And in the new med in the new world that we're

Unknown:

going into now, I'm very excited because that that interim that

Unknown:

that adjusting adjustment phase, I guess, or I don't know,

Unknown:

interim step, you know, the beginning, the beginning was

Unknown:

physical and physical world, the interim step was digital

Unknown:

representations of physical and the new world is digital on

Unknown:

digital. So, I'm really excited about that move to, to that to

Unknown:

that fully digital space. And I think what it'll include for all

Unknown:

of us, is just the digital version of that house back when

Unknown:

you know, kind of like the one I grew up with grew up in Overland

Unknown:

Park, Kansas, you know, it's gonna have my the wallpaper I

Unknown:

use I see it with my 10 year old and I've been playing Roblox

Unknown:

together for years. And she's got it's very it's just get it

Unknown:

out. She's got her space and she's having lemonade stands and

Unknown:

she's got outfits galore. And, you know, so I think I love what

Lindsay Poss:

we started with esports and wound up in kind of

Lindsay Poss:

identity factors. That was very fun.

Unknown:

So many brands are so important for esports were part

Unknown:

of the, it was

Lindsay Poss:

a logical transition, I was not

Lindsay Poss:

criticizing at all, it just was a very, very fun to listen to

Lindsay Poss:

you talk about all the possibilities. We've kind of

Lindsay Poss:

circled around this topic too. But I do want to end with a

Lindsay Poss:

discussion on on your career as a woman, you, especially

Lindsay Poss:

starting in investment banking, I'm sure you have several

Lindsay Poss:

stories. And you had mentioned earlier, you know, we don't have

Lindsay Poss:

enough women in tech, and we're always trying to kind of get

Lindsay Poss:

more in and feed that pipeline a little bit better. But how do

Lindsay Poss:

you think we can improve diversity in the tech industry?

Lindsay Poss:

And are there any specific kind of action items or programs or

Lindsay Poss:

anything of that nature that you've seen where you think,

Lindsay Poss:

wow, it would be great if this was everywhere.

Unknown:

So I am going to go back to So in 2019, I was

Unknown:

honored to ask to speak on women in leadership and financial

Unknown:

services, there still aren't as many women as you as you might

Unknown:

think, even now, in financial services and investment banking

Unknown:

and in, you know, general finance, and in crypto, I

Unknown:

thought there would be more. It's probably even more male

Unknown:

dominated gaming, as we know, you know, it's pretty male

Unknown:

dominated. Anyway, I was inspired by Michelle Williams in

Unknown:

2019, when she won the Emmy Award, and her speech, you know,

Unknown:

she kept saying, this term, this this phrase, believe her is what

Unknown:

she kept interspersing in her conversation hers in her speech,

Unknown:

and it was all about thanking her bosses at Fox for paying her

Unknown:

pain or equally, at the time she went, she had just been in all

Unknown:

the money in the world. And it was uncovered that she was paid

Unknown:

$1,000 For reshoots. And Mark Wahlberg was paid

Lindsay Poss:

$5 million. Because I remember that

Unknown:

and, and so when she won the MA for it was for Fossey

Unknown:

Verdun. At that time, she's she just said, I want to thank my

Unknown:

bosses for treating me equally repay me equally and for

Unknown:

believing me. And that whole believing me taps into a lot

Unknown:

with women, we have impostor syndrome we have there's,

Unknown:

there's a lot there. And it inspired me to start thanking

Unknown:

the mentors in my life, most of whom are men, because that's who

Unknown:

I've been surrounded by my whole career. But I think it sets an

Unknown:

example to call to give a public shout out to somebody who does

Unknown:

do the right thing and support women and just try to encourage

Unknown:

more of that positive behavior. So that's one thing that I tried

Unknown:

to keep in the back of my mind is to thank my mentors along the

Unknown:

way, and I've had so many I'm so grateful. And then the other

Unknown:

thing is just to, you know, pull another woman up anytime you

Unknown:

can, if anybody calls me to ask me to speak on a panel. And if I

Unknown:

can't do it, I always try to give three women as replacements

Unknown:

just because the more of us they get in the mix. You know, the

Unknown:

better it'll be it takes time takes a lot of time,

Unknown:

unfortunately, but I think just bringing each other up one, one

Unknown:

thing that, as you know, because you just joined us, which is

Unknown:

exciting. A few years ago, I was at game speed, and we there was

Unknown:

a women in you know, gaming breakfast. And one of the other

Unknown:

attendees as usual, James and I afterward, after the conference,

Unknown:

we talked and we thought, you know, let's create a women in

Unknown:

gaming that that breakfast, let's let's do that every couple

Unknown:

of weeks. And so now we're on we're on two and a half years

Unknown:

later, we've been meeting every two weeks. I think we've taken

Unknown:

off maybe during the holidays, we took off a week, and we took

Unknown:

up a couple of weeks during one week each summer. But we have

Unknown:

been really excited to see we have women founders and gaming

Unknown:

execs and investors in gaming and we call it wigs, wigs on

Unknown:

women gaming zoom on Wednesdays. And our Discord is really

Unknown:

important. We don't have any it's all Chatham House rules. We

Unknown:

don't have any, you know, LinkedIn posts after we don't

Unknown:

have any. You know, the purpose is not marketing. The purpose is

Unknown:

really to actually truly ask, you know, ask each other how can

Unknown:

we help so we have assets and offers like, what would you like

Unknown:

from the group? What can the group what can you offer to the

Unknown:

group and then each week we spotlight another woman, you

Unknown:

know, founders, that girl investor and interview her like

Unknown:

you're interviewing me on this podcasts. So, you know, I'd love

Unknown:

we'd love to have more, you know, women reach out. And so

Unknown:

that's that's that's just a couple of ideas. But I think

Unknown:

bringing other women up and bringing other women along with

Unknown:

you is, is pretty

Lindsay Poss:

it's been a in the the pace of progress has been a

Lindsay Poss:

shared disappointment as the right word but shared point as

Lindsay Poss:

sadness, I suppose, right? consternation Yeah. For several

Lindsay Poss:

of the people that I've brought on, but I am happy to hear and

Lindsay Poss:

part of the reason why I started this particular podcast was for

Lindsay Poss:

the same reason, I do think that positive reinforcement is really

Lindsay Poss:

important. If shame worked as a tool of making people's behavior

Lindsay Poss:

better, our society would probably look a lot different.

Lindsay Poss:

And I don't think it would be in a positive way. So I am happy

Lindsay Poss:

that there's been a wave of positive reinforcement and

Lindsay Poss:

calling out good behaviors. I think that's, that's really,

Lindsay Poss:

really critical. And it offers the chance for so many different

Lindsay Poss:

people to be role models, which is really neat. So before we get

Lindsay Poss:

to the very last segment, I want to read a quick little summary

Lindsay Poss:

of all the stuff we talked about, because we covered a lot

Lindsay Poss:

in this 45 minutes. So much so fast. We actually started off

Lindsay Poss:

with a discussion on Zoom and leaping into Metaverse like

Lindsay Poss:

experiences by allowing multiple sensory inputs and points from

Lindsay Poss:

sounds and emotions, facial expressions, etc. But basically,

Lindsay Poss:

that was our first mass entry point into Metaverse like

Lindsay Poss:

experiences, and allowed us to be ourselves which is really

Lindsay Poss:

going to kind of change the way we think about digital advert,

Lindsay Poss:

avatars, and interacting digital spaces. When it comes to your

Lindsay Poss:

vast experience in investment opportunities, and banking and

Lindsay Poss:

all of the stuff. I like that you pointed out that Epic is

Lindsay Poss:

your North Star, I think that's a incredibly brave stance to

Lindsay Poss:

take. Not not brave in the sense of a poor choice, but brave in

Lindsay Poss:

the sense of most people don't call out what they're exactly

Lindsay Poss:

looking at. So I appreciate you sharing that, um, economies are

Lindsay Poss:

being shifted into online worlds and new economies are bubbling

Lindsay Poss:

up. And you are looking to dig into tool companies, software

Lindsay Poss:

companies and combined with a later stage kind of backdrop. So

Lindsay Poss:

like you said, the two ends of the barbell, the really, really

Lindsay Poss:

new and innovative and creative portions and then the legacy

Lindsay Poss:

companies that have a good strong backing and a career in

Lindsay Poss:

innovative technology. We also talked about the pattern of

Lindsay Poss:

Metaverse development and how it's not going to be a bunch of

Lindsay Poss:

small companies merge into a bunch of big companies who then

Lindsay Poss:

buy small companies are getting a different kind of hamster

Lindsay Poss:

wheel of development there. In the epic Metaverse is kind of

Lindsay Poss:

showing that that playground is a good breeding place for the

Lindsay Poss:

entrepreneurial spirit and new new companies can be born

Lindsay Poss:

there's much fewer restrictions on age, gender, all the other

Lindsay Poss:

things that might hold someone back. This talked a lot about NF

Lindsay Poss:

T's other windows into engagement and programmable

Lindsay Poss:

royalties for artists. But how crypto needs to clean up the

Lindsay Poss:

fact because a lot of companies are spending time working on

Lindsay Poss:

scam spams and frauds. very succinct way of demonstrating

Lindsay Poss:

some of the issues comes to opportunities in esports,

Lindsay Poss:

there's an immediate opportunity that's just like NBA top shots

Lindsay Poss:

with lookalike. There's also a lot of opportunity with digital

Lindsay Poss:

on digital identity indicators. So brands getting into

Lindsay Poss:

advertising, but in such a way that does not create a conflict

Lindsay Poss:

of interest between creators and putting out advertisements

Lindsay Poss:

themselves. So it allows for brand engagement and brand

Lindsay Poss:

identity on the user end, which is really special. And then we

Lindsay Poss:

ended with a short discussion on how being in an environment

Lindsay Poss:

where you're believed is so important. And it's also

Lindsay Poss:

important to thank your positive role models that bring other

Lindsay Poss:

women up and offer support to anyone who might need it. So

Lindsay Poss:

with all of that in mind, and our wide ranging discussion

Lindsay Poss:

there, I like to end every podcast with a moment of

Lindsay Poss:

reflection, just a chance for you to look back on your career.

Lindsay Poss:

And I will ask you, what is one thing you would like to tell

Lindsay Poss:

your younger self about getting into the gaming slash crypto

Lindsay Poss:

slash emerging technology industry and being successful?

Unknown:

Well, I would tell my younger self it's funny because

Unknown:

I hadn't read this question. But I'm gonna think about it right

Unknown:

now. I you know, I have gotten more of I've become more of a

Unknown:

risk taker. As I've gotten older, usually people become

Unknown:

less risk or more risk averse. I've become more risk seen.

Unknown:

Like, I think one of the, you know, best things that I did was

Unknown:

actually go work for when we started the company, or for the

Unknown:

web three foundation on the launch of polka.we. Didn't get

Unknown:

into that, but that was very early days in a brand new crypto

Unknown:

network. I knew a lot about Bitcoin, that I was just

Unknown:

learning about crypto, and it was a risk. I had a really

Unknown:

strong gut that the ethos of Gavin wood and the other you

Unknown:

know People who created polka dot was the right ethos for

Unknown:

crypto. And I'm really glad that I did that it was I did it

Unknown:

without a lot of information. I did as much research as I could

Unknown:

very quickly, and then I and then I went on my gut. And I

Unknown:

wish that I would have done that more. When I was younger, when I

Unknown:

was younger, I was typically the only woman in the room and I was

Unknown:

trying to, I went down the conservative route most of the

Unknown:

time, because I thought, well, you know, unless I know

Unknown:

everything, I'm not going to come out and say what I think

Unknown:

unless I really have every single detail, unless I, you

Unknown:

know, and, you know, and by the way, also I've got, like, all

Unknown:

these student loans, and so I'm gonna get a really good paying

Unknown:

job, and I'm gonna work my way up. And it's just so liberating

Unknown:

to be an entrepreneur. And to go with my gut more, I used to be

Unknown:

more analysis, and I love numbers as much as the next

Unknown:

person, you know, but I used to lean into those that the

Unknown:

quantitative analysis more now I lean more into the qualitative

Unknown:

and into people, because I learned over the years that the

Unknown:

hunch on people is, is the thing like that is the thing. That's

Unknown:

how I know I'm on the right path is if I'm with the right

Lindsay Poss:

people. Oh, I love that. And as someone who was

Lindsay Poss:

sort of part of the great resignation, and I left my job

Lindsay Poss:

in 2021, and it's been a scary world, but it also has been more

Lindsay Poss:

fun than I've ever had. So that is really, really wonderful

Lindsay Poss:

advice. And that was something that I personally needed to

Lindsay Poss:

hear. Thank you so much. I'm

Unknown:

just you, and also in the business of esports, you

Unknown:

provide such a great perspective. And so I really,

Unknown:

you know, want to say thank you for all the work you're doing.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, that's cool. I really appreciate that. You

Lindsay Poss:

know, this has been a phenomenal project to work on. And I'm just

Lindsay Poss:

so grateful for all the support. Angela, thank you so much for

Lindsay Poss:

coming on. Where can people find you follow you keep up with

Lindsay Poss:

signum, all of that good stuff. So

Unknown:

signum. jc.com is our website. And then we write a

Unknown:

blog blog called bits of signum, on substack. And so anyone can

Unknown:

subscribe. And you know, we have a discord. But we're going to

Unknown:

get to the next phase of our business where we invite

Unknown:

everybody on to talk and brainstorm. And so we'll let you

Unknown:

know more about that when we have it.

Lindsay Poss:

Yay. That's so much fun. For all of our

Lindsay Poss:

listeners out there. Please be sure to leave those five star

Lindsay Poss:

ratings and reviews or just send me your really nice comments, or

Lindsay Poss:

come on this podcast and compliment me here. As Angela

Lindsay Poss:

has just shown, be sure to check out other holodeck podcasts,

Lindsay Poss:

including meta business for all the metaverse finance stories

Lindsay Poss:

you could ever want. Business esports for interviews with

Lindsay Poss:

industry leaders. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn

Lindsay Poss:

at Lindsay paws. You can catch me Wednesday nights on the

Lindsay Poss:

business of esports life after show and you can catch this

Lindsay Poss:

podcast and your feed every Tuesday but sometimes Wednesday,

Lindsay Poss:

and we will see you next week. Thanks for joining

Unknown:

us here on meadow woman. Make sure to subscribe to

Unknown:

this podcast everywhere you get your podcasts, leave a five star

Unknown:

review and tell your friends, family and colleagues all about

Unknown:

us. Also, make sure to follow metta TV on all socials to get

Unknown:

more of the best Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every

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META Woman
Weekly metaverse content - for women, by women
Meta Woman will focus on addressing the issues, opportunities, and challenges facing women in the development of the Metaverse. Top female executives and business people operating within the gaming and crypto industries bring a wide range of perspectives through regular guest appearances.