Episode 29

full
Published on:

21st Jun 2022

29. Mental Fitness in the Metaverse

We're back with an episode on mental health and wellness, or as the guest this week calls the combination, mental fitness. Sarah Hill, CEO and Founder of Healium, joins me to chat how emerging tech will change the mental health field. Sarah's own journey with PTSD and the struggles of journalism lead her to creating Healium, an app that uses AR/VR technology to teach good practices and address mental health issues. Join me as I learn about mental fitness, media diets, and what's happening on the Silicon Prairie.

Episode Resources:

https://www.tryhealium.com/

https://www.startlandnews.com/2022/05/healium-nfl/

Transcript
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Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now. Hello, and welcome

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to the men and women podcast part of the holodeck media

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Podcast Network. I'm your host Lindsay The Boss Boss and from

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struggle to success recovering it all. Or returning listeners.

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Thank you so much for supporting the show. For new listeners,

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welcome, I hope you enjoy, you'll get very used to hearing

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this syndrome. Sure. Today's guest is super special because

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she's at the pinnacle gaming, mental health and emerging tech.

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So just really crazy overlap between those three categories.

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I'm excited to welcome Sarah Hill, CEO and chief storyteller

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and founder of helium, taken directly from its website.

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Helium is a mental fitness tool that offers you a new active

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approach to meditation that is powered by your body's

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electricity. Utilize real time data to train your brain so you

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can self manage your anxiety, focus more intently in sleep

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better. And I also want to note that it's helium as an H E A L r

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u m so feel Sara, welcome to the show, please introduce yourself

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a little further than I just did. And give the audience a bit

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of your backstory what you do. Lindsay, it's so great to be

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here with you and your listeners. And I am a former

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television reporter. And covered a lot of trauma so developed

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helium for me, as well as the millions of people who struggle

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with anxiety and want to sleep better and feel better in a

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drugless way.

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Love actually want to start with kind of your your hero origin

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story here. And you develop this company and moved into the tech

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space. And we will get into that. But I want to start by

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actually back in your very successful career as a broadcast

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TV journalist. I understand you're a 12 time that America

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Emmy Award winner, which is a lot like more than two hands

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worth. That's how you know that you were very good. Many moons

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ago, we talked about the kind of pressure that that spotlight

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has. And more fundamentally, I'm sure plenty of people can relate

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to having a stressful job or having a stressful life or

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dealing with trauma, receiving feedback or going through

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difficult experiences. And that kind of general anxiety that as

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of right now, especially in the post pandemic world just comes

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from being alive. But can you speak to how your career in

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broadcast journalism, you mentioned it very lightly,

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already helped motivate you to create helium and move into the

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kind of healing space? Absolutely. So I spent 20 years

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as a broadcast journalism, I worked for the ABC, NBC, CBS

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News affiliates in Missouri. And as part of that job, you hear

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this with a lot of journalists, a lot of journalists experience

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burnout.

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They have panic attacks, they have difficulty sleeping,

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because they're constantly feeding the beast and

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constantly, you know, covering trauma, interviewing people

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who've lost children, we went out with the trauma teams in the

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aftermath of the tsunami in Sri Lankan Indonesia. And so you as

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a journalist have to cover sometimes the worst day of

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people's lives. And in order to be a good storyteller, you need

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to step inside their story, and experience what they're

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experiencing to be able to properly communicate it in a

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video story. So, you know, as a journalist, we absorbed a lot of

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that pain. And you never think that it's, you know, you cover

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homicide and the morning, you, you know, might go to a trial in

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the afternoon, you know, in interviews, someone's you have

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to knock on doors of families that have experienced great loss

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in their life. Because sadly, you know, that's, that's your

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job. And ultimately, that end, you know, I have worked in great

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environments with great bosses who continue to be my mentors

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and great stations and opportunities. And it wasn't

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that I wasn't supported. It's just the nature of the business,

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and ultimately, that stress and made me sick with insomnia and

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the inability to sleep and you don't really realize how

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insomnia can impact your body and not having that mental reset

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every night until it backfires. And it backfired on me in the

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form of panic attacks and once you have a panic attack

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If you've ever had one It's like someone turned up the volume

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full steam set your hair on fire and elephant on your chest

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difficulty breathing and all of a sudden your body is short

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circuited and you feel like what is going on, you feel like a

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lion, you know is going to attack you. But yet there's no

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lion in the room. And that's just, you know, your body

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revolting in that fight or flight area and my husband was a

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cop. He's still my husband, but he used to be a counseling

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psychologist. And, you know, he he said to me, sir, I know

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exactly what's happening, because I thought is a stroke, I

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have a heart attack, he, you know, is all these things. And I

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didn't want to admit to myself that no, you know, it was

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everything that I had had absorbed over the last couple

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decades, and was looking for drugless solutions and found

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neurofeedback. And in the old days of neurofeedback, and this

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was you know, 15 years ago, when I was experiencing insomnia, and

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you had to glue electrodes to glue, like literally with glue

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electrodes on your scalp and your forehead and do these games

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and that at the time, they were kind of boring, where it was

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training your brain to, you know, calm itself, so that you

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could learn to sleep and learn to self regulate your brain

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patterns. And you know, here I was, at the time I was in my 40s

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I had never learned how to self regulate my brain patterns on my

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heart rate. And it's, you know, a sad state of all the things

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that you learn in your life, yet you don't learn how your own

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mind operates or how you can actually control it. And nobody

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had said to me, you know, did you know that she can actually

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control your brain patterns and your heart rate, and had I known

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you know that I might have learned it. But in those

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Neurofeedback sessions, I found them kind of boring in a way so

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it would make up stories, because I was a storyteller in

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order to make it more engaging for me. And to make a long story

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short, we developed helium

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and added that Neurofeedback integration. In virtual and

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augmented reality, we were doing virtual tours for a group of

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veterans who weren't able to physically travel to see their

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memorials in Washington, DC and I would create video stories in

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virtual reality of their memorials so they could see

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them. And to make a long story short, in all of those tours, we

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noticed that VR appeared to be affecting the veterans

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physiology, they weren't just watching these experiences, it

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was it was if somehow they were feeling them. So I reached out

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to that Neurofeedback specialist who was actually my husband's

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business partner in his practice at the time, and said, Can you

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do some brain maps, you know, on these individuals experiencing

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these stories, because something's happening inside

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their their mind. And I just, you know, would like to gain

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more clarity on what's going on, because they take off the

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headset, their body appears relaxed, they take

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a deep cleansing breath, and they say, I like how I how I

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felt, can I watch that again? And so, you know, Dr. Taryn did

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a brain map could see significant shifts in the fast

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activity in their brain very quickly in a matter of minutes.

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And, you know, I remember him saying, to me, this is

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significant, this kind of media, you know, could have healing

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abilities to allow people to learn to self regulate. And what

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if we, you know, imported the brain patterns in there that

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they could actually do those Neurofeedback sessions inside

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virtual reality, or in augmented reality without the goggles. And

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that led us on a very long path of doing additional research. We

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have five peer reviewed journals, trying to develop what

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kind of media impacts brain patterns and heart rate and

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certain way. So helium of source is like a media detox, for all

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of the negative fiber that you put in your media diet

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throughout the day.

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Wow, I'm sure that you have talked about this at length by

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now and given that, that sort of backstory to many folks, but I

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have to commend you for also sharing your own mental health

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struggles, which is something that can be very difficult, and

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for collecting these different experiences and putting them

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together because it's, it's quite a lot of different pieces

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to kind of connect between, you know, your own work and what you

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went through to the work you did with veterans to the work you

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have seen in your husband's practice or in that community

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and then putting it all together into one cohesive kind of plan

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is, is really cool. Along the way, it wasn't just me it was we

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had a great we haven't

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retention? Yes, someone has to be the visionary though to, it's

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cool. It's neat to hear how you were able to think of those

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things and bring in people who could support these ideas and

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help create and develop those ideas further as well. Very cool

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to find the junction of all of those. It's like I said, it's

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not every day you meet someone who is in gaming and VR and

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creating mental health solutions.

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It was a drunken sailor walk, if you will, the journey, as they

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call it, it was not a linear path. And anyway, it was, you

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know, skills that I had a need that I saw, what kind of skills

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do I have to fit that need? Who's in my network? And how can

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we learn? You know, how to make these experiences in a way that

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can even far more greatly,

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you know,

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allow people to self manage their anxiety and sleep.

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Yeah, well, and I want to I know, I'm jumping around a bit

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here. But I do want to talk about the sleep portion. Because

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since we've last spoken, sleeping them, I have seen come

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to fruition. So can you explain that part of the app and what it

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does? Yeah, so sleep is a new product, it's within helium. So

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if you're a helium subscriber, you get sleepy as well. And

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these are experiences that are designed to downshift the

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nervous system. So they're meant to be viewed in a reclined

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position, either in your bed. And these goggles, by the way,

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come with blue light filters. So there's a night mode that you

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can put on, and they're all calming experiences, the dreams

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that you have, after, you know, watching some of these sleep,

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human experiences, mine are

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fascinating. And I actually remember on which usually I

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don't, don't remember them as well. And so that's been out for

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about a couple months. And you know, you can put the headset on

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your bedside, take asleep em before you go to bed at night.

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And then during the day, you can train with helium train with an

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EEG headband, so that you could actually see your own brain

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patterns displayed inside the screen. Because the self

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management of anxiety and that self care during the day, sleep

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hygiene isn't just before you go to bed at night, it's during the

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day. And in learning how to you know, self regulate your brain

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patterns and heart rate, not a replacement, any of this for

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psychotropic medication, or professional counseling, which

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we all know is one of the best things that we can do for

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yourself ourselves. But as a self coping mechanism, drugless

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non harmful coping mechanism, it is valuable to be able to learn

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to self regulate during the day and train during the day, and

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then lay down at night. And, you know, float through a butterfly

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Island, you know, glide through a glacial lake. All of these are

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beautiful nature based escapes that have the option during the

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day to be powered by your brain patterns.

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So cool. Now I actually want to jump back in because I realized

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we didn't go fully into what helium is either. So he actually

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started with sleeping. Um, and I would love for you to talk about

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that more, because we've talked a lot about the VR portion. But

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I know that there's also an AR portion. So it's really

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accessible to a lot of different folks. So can you tell me more

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about the kind of the services that are tell the audience more

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about the services that helium offers, how it works, what kind

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of feedback you've gotten, and I mean, I will say I've used it,

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and it's beautiful. So highly recommend to you. So VR goggles

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are not required in augmented reality just on your mobile

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device, you can open up a magic portal in your living room or in

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your bedroom. And you can walk through that portal or if you

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don't have mobility, you can teleport through that portal.

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And then you're inside another beautiful magical kingdom and

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Nebula in space, a peaceful waterfall. You can flow through

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the center of your brain and learn about how all of the

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synapses fire and how your thoughts have power. Actually,

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what you think about has eject direct impact on your brain

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patterns and your heart rate. And, you know, in augmented

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reality, that's how it works. In its very simplest form. It's a

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free app that you can download on iOS and Android. Just search

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the helium store the App Store for helium H E A L I E u m, and

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then in virtual reality on either Oculus quest, Pico G two

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4k pico Neo three, five vive focus by Flo Search the app

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store for helium, and then that we have a free version in that

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free version. You don't have the ability to connect

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To wearable, but that's okay. Some people just you know, like

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to use it without a wearable, and there's limited content, but

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it will give you a taste of what some of these experiences are

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like. And then if you subscribe, you have the ability to get a

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helium score, which is a score associated with your focus calm,

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according to your your brain patterns. And then also, you can

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see a session length, so how long that you've been using it,

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and you can download your own data to track your progress over

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time. And so either in VR or and AR without the goggles do have

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the ability to use it. However, VR is more engaging, more

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memorable. And it more greatly tricks the brain into thinking

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that it someplace else because it's more immersive. In

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augmented reality, it's a little bit more variable, because

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you're seeing your own real world. And that real world

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inside your living room might be all the clutter that you have on

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the couch that's reminding you that you have to clean it up.

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But you're able to bring in those assets inside your own

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environment, even without goggles. And remember, some of

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those experiences that perhaps if you do have VR goggles,

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you've created an associative memory that you can then go back

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to in a stressful situation, or go back to outside of the

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goggles just on on your mobile device in order to learn to to

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downshift. And this is just media healing healing media,

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that is allowing people to learn how their brain patterns work,

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how their heart rate works, and, you know, learn to self

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regulate.

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I actually want to talk a little bit about

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I mean, so I understand why you developed each for AR and VR

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because they each have their strengths, the AR is super

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accessible on the go, wherever you are, the VR is the more most

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immersive, or like learning based or this healing based is

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kind of a good way to say it experience that is is probably

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more for like kind of a longer term. person who's trying to to

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keep or to learn better how to self regulate. But can you tell

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me what it was like to develop across platforms to developing

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for an AR on your phone, and what those environments are

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going to look like is presumably very different, developing VR

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experiences, and then also just what it's like developing for

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several different VR goggles. This isn't something we get into

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a lot, but traditional gaming industry, a lot of companies

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will develop for Xbox or for PC, or some will develop a cross

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platform. But what is that kind of cross platform like in the AR

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VR space?

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Yeah, it's difficult. So, you know, specifically in the early

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days, where there wasn't a lot of tools that you could create

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at once, and then click a button, and it automatically

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deploys to all of the others, you know, like we have in some

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of those ways with iOS and Android. But more of those tools

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are coming online. And so you know, as a company, we had to

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develop almost individual apps for each headset. Because the

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headsets are different, their inputs are different, their

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remote controls are different, how they collect, or how they

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connect to Bluetooth, are different as well. And so it was

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was difficult, and not to mention the fact that we are you

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know, importing a user's brainwaves into the experience.

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And how do you tell stories with biometric data? And not only

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that, but it's stories in the round. And quite honestly, you

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know, when it comes to, we created the virtual reality app

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first. And then we created the augmented reality app as a

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companion to the virtual reality experience. So on that AR app,

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you have the ability to cast it to your mobile device. And you

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can start on your mobile device, you know, select a VR thumbnail

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that you want to send to your headset, and then it sends it to

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your headset and you can automatically put it on. But as

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a long story short, yes, it was difficult. Because while those

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two mediums virtual reality being completely immersive

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inside the goggles, and augmented reality, being a 3d

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assets imported into your real world environment are very

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different. They're also very the same, in that the line between

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AR and VR is blurring into you know, what we call XR and in our

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shop X just means solve for x. It's extended reality, whether

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that be AR VR or Mr. And, you know, much as in the early days

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of still images and video. There is a very distinctive line but

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tween still images and video. And now still images get

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inserted into video all the time. And it's still just video,

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right? It's, it's the same with AR and VR. And we're seeing that

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the headset manufacturers as well, you know, with our

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passthru cameras and their augmented reality development

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tools blur that line as well, in that, you know, these VR

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experiences more and more, you can tap the side of your

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headset, and then you see the real world. And it's going to be

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the same thing in the future more and more with VR apps that

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there's also going to be an augmented reality option if you

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want to see the real world and just see those assets super

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superimposed over it. Not all experiences are there yet. And

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for us, they're separate entities. But we know in the

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metaverse.

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You know, it's not just going to be in a virtual reality headset,

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it's going to be in some kind of heads up display. And, you know,

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collectively you can embody avatars in augmented reality

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experiences as well. So we see that line blurred blurring and

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we also saw the need to be ambidextrous on both platforms,

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so that we can be ready when the metaverse is fully put built, to

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happen into whatever medium it is to allow people to experience

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helium and selenium.

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So cool. I'm actually glad that you want to do the term XR

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because that's a term that I've seen pop up now, multiple times

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and haven't had a great basis for understanding but I like

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this idea of them of AR and VR experiences bleeding into one

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another and teeing taking cues from each of them to create kind

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of a new version of reality for people to experience. I want to

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pick apart since you brought up the metaverse, of course we talk

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a lot about the metaverse on this podcast and a lot of fun.

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But what are you first of all, what does that word mean to you?

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And what? You as a person who's developing these experiences,

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particularly working in the field of mental health?

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Are you excited? Are you nervous? Or what do you think

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about how the metaverse is going to help or hurt us with mental

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health? What is this impact going to be like, as emerging

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tech becomes more familiar in our day to day routines? Yeah.

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And the answer to that is yes and no. Will it help us or you

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know, hurt our mental health much like any kind of

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technology? It depends on how you wield that. And to me the

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metaverse is very simply the immersive Internet where you can

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live work and play. And these are, you know, immersive land

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space landscapes that you can go into and collectively experience

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a group

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helium experience that's powered collectively by your biometric

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data or your your brain patterns. And those are

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collectively pooled among the group. And, you know, together

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they're, they're controlling assets in in the environment.

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But those platforms are very are nascent right now. You know,

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there's there are companies doing great work in that space.

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But the ecosystem for developers is, is just starting. And also

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the user base is just starting as well. And so I'm excited

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about the future of the metaverse to collectively bring

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together people in a singular space to have experience they

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have experiences, and also conversations about mental

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health, mental wellness and mental fitness. And, you know,

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there is power in in group activities. And so that's why

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we're, you know, looking forward to the onset of the of the

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metaverse.

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With that being said, how do you kind of balance that with people

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who have or with general media, public, whatever, who has

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criticisms about this tech coming about the way we

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currently interact with tech? Like,

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what do you say to folks who are on the very much you know, more

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tech is bad kind of spectrum for things? And obviously, is

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particularly bad for mental health? And how are you thinking

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about how to reach out and approach those people and get

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them to see the vision that you have, which I think is very

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positive and a very different take on on the way we can treat

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mental health?

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Yeah, and, you know, not all technology is bad. It's a diet

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and we call this a media diet. So there's a great film out

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there.

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From from 2020, I'm sure many of your listeners saw it called the

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social dilemma. And it talks about, you know, the risks and

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the

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fallout of the rise of social media 25% of youth and young

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adults, we call them the young generation have suicidal

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ideation. And so that came about with,

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you know, you could argue, was it a coincidence or not, but

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that, you know, mental health emergency came about, at about

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the same time with the rise of social media, and obviously,

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youth and young adults, they're comparing themselves to others,

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they're spending a lot of time in social media, and it's become

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addictive. And, you know, what we are advocating for? And

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helium is it's a diet, you know, do you need social social media?

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While you can make an argument? Yes, or No, social media has no

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value in that. It can help keep you safe. Is there a tornado in

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my neighborhood? Is there a child molester living next door

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to me, it allows you to stay connected to people and

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loneliness, it's also a health threat. It also allows you to

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know who to vote for who to vote against, it's it's information.

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And so there are good good aspects to that rise of social

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media. But left unchecked, if you are not properly maintaining

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your media diet, it'll make you sick. And if you're constantly

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consuming negative media, and research shows, what you watch

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has a direct impact on your brain patterns and heart rate.

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So what you're consuming in that media, it you know, it can also

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trigger trauma inside you as well. So you have to temper that

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with reality. And that's, you know, the best ways is reality.

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But not everybody lives near a park, or a beautiful forest, or

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has the funds to take a trip to, you know, whatever, whatever.

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You know, beautiful waterfall in South America. So enter the, you

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know, healing media, media, that is positive fiber to your media

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diet. And also, you know, specifically designed in a way

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to try to, you know, shift your brain patterns allow you to

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become more self aware of how to self regulate, and also try to

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create some unique and memories that you can go back to in a

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stressful situation. So if you can't see the mountains, in

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reality, in virtual reality, you can have a unique memory that

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you can go back to. And research shows that when you view these

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experiences inside a headset, that is more of more engaging

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and more memorable than if you saw it through the filter of

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watching a video on on your phone. So that's a very long

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explanation. But it is a diet and media diet, that, you know,

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we as consumers have the ability to control.

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That's, you've used many terms throughout this that I think are

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great. mental fitness is one downshifting is one, sleep

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hygiene is one. But I do really like the idea of positive fiber,

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and immediate diet as well. Immediate diet is another one.

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These are good words to frame a lot of the issues, which is just

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that's a side note, but that's I appreciate adding this

Unknown:

terminology to my vernacular to my patterns as well. And it's

Unknown:

fascinating to me that you're working to actually create

Unknown:

virtual memories. That is, that's so cool.

Unknown:

I mean, I don't know how to, I think even the most letter, like

Unknown:

the highest form of Luddites, who would be excited to hear

Unknown:

that, like, that's just really cool.

Unknown:

It's it's that, you know, selfishly, I haven't always been

Unknown:

able to get to beautiful landscapes. So, you know,

Unknown:

helpful for me to be able to have that place that that you

Unknown:

can go back to in your mind whenever you need it, regardless

Unknown:

of whether or not you have a mobile device, or whether or not

Unknown:

you have virtual reality goggles. You know, we all need

Unknown:

that, that place to remember. So cool. I want to pivot a little

Unknown:

bit into actually building a company, because that's

Unknown:

something that you have experience with as well. And

Unknown:

this helium has been around since 2016, if I'm not mistaken.

Unknown:

So you just over the five year mark here and I know that you

Unknown:

have done a great many things with it. But one thing that I

Unknown:

saw recently was a story about the NFL pitch competition. And

Unknown:

the pitch competition specifically is aimed at helping

Unknown:

pro players reduced stress and anxiety through non drug based

Unknown:

treatments. And the NFLPA is really involved in that I've

Unknown:

seen a lot more athletes open up about their struggles with

Unknown:

mental health, I think in the way that you bring attention to

Unknown:

a lot of broadcast and media journalism or journalism roles.

Unknown:

The NFLPA has brought a lot of attention to

Unknown:

professional sports and what that can be like. But tell me

Unknown:

about what it has been like for you. Winning the NFL pitch

Unknown:

competition, building the company, as a woman, and what

Unknown:

kind of skills you're able to take from your background in

Unknown:

media and entertainment to help you on this journey. And I had

Unknown:

to have the successes you've had.

Unknown:

So it was a great experience. And the NFL and the NFLPA are

Unknown:

doing very important work on mental health and wellness.

Unknown:

Matter of fact, they recently formed a mental health and

Unknown:

wellness committee to focus specifically on you know, what

Unknown:

are some tools that they can get in player's hands, and their

Unknown:

families, and, you know, elite athletes, the

Unknown:

immense stress that they encounter, not only from a

Unknown:

performance anxiety perspective, but you know, what they get in

Unknown:

their social media feeds, and, you know, at media conferences,

Unknown:

and the pressure that they have, is immense. And yet as an elite

Unknown:

athlete, that, you know, not all

Unknown:

either want to seek counseling, although it's, you know, one of

Unknown:

the best things that's out there, or have the ability to,

Unknown:

you know, take a psychotropic medication, because, with anti

Unknown:

doping, you know, it can impact their their human performance as

Unknown:

well. And so, you know, helium, Slepian drugless solutions, a

Unknown:

lot of players travel, and, you know, downshifting in their mind

Unknown:

at night, in order to sleep is difficult. And so this is a, you

Unknown:

know, a drugless way that, you know, you can

Unknown:

have a cleanse at night, if you will, and, you know, put a

Unknown:

beautiful memory in your mind before before you go to bed at

Unknown:

night. So the pitch competition was held a couple of weeks ago

Unknown:

in Las Vegas during the NFL Draft. And we were delighted to

Unknown:

be among six really amazing companies doing important work

Unknown:

with human performance, and entertainment, and a variety of

Unknown:

different ways that they're adding value to and hydration,

Unknown:

that they're adding value to elite athlete athletes. So it

Unknown:

also, you know, unlock some some phenomenal opportunities for us

Unknown:

that we're just beginning to realize, and so grateful for

Unknown:

that, that opportunity and excited to get helium in the

Unknown:

hands of more elite athletes. And also amateur athletes as

Unknown:

well. We recently formed a partnership with Athletes

Unknown:

Unlimited, which works with professional female sports

Unknown:

teams. And we're excited that they're using helium as well.

Unknown:

Because just as you work out your body, so to do you work out

Unknown:

your mind. And mental fitness is very important as well, you

Unknown:

reduce anxiety, you increase working memory, which reduces

Unknown:

the likelihood of errors, it increases the likelihood of

Unknown:

better management decisions. And so you know, the value of having

Unknown:

that drug less non harmful coping mechanism that you can

Unknown:

use at night or to train with during during the day is really

Unknown:

valuable for those elite athletes. And we're seeing that

Unknown:

borne out with Naomi, Osaka,

Unknown:

you know, all of the different different players who, you know,

Unknown:

talk about getting the twisties before the the Olympics, and,

Unknown:

you know, we need to be having conversations, not just about

Unknown:

the the pharmaceutical interventions, but the great

Unknown:

many non pharmaceutical,

Unknown:

non harmful coping mechanisms that people can use when they

Unknown:

need it as a part of a digital drug that's in your medicine

Unknown:

cabinet. So cool. Um, and I know we I wrapped up about four

Unknown:

questions within that question, but can you tell me about

Unknown:

building the company the journey you've taken as an entrepreneur

Unknown:

and what that's been like for you as a woman?

Unknown:

Or just in general? I mean, it doesn't have to be through the

Unknown:

lens of gender, but just curious about your experiences. Yeah, so

Unknown:

building a company is awesome. And it's with a lot of

Unknown:

challenges, though. We are located in the middle of the

Unknown:

Silicon Prairie, as we call it in the Midwest, which

Unknown:

historically lacks access to venture capital. And so a lot of

Unknown:

people have never heard of us before. And then they are, you

Unknown:

know, surprised to hear about a tech hub.

Unknown:

Buddy operating in the Midwest, we always joke we say, Yes, we

Unknown:

just got the internet last year and, you know, running water and

Unknown:

really, you know, in the age of the internet, and specifically

Unknown:

post pandemic, you know, companies can happen, you know,

Unknown:

great companies happen everywhere, not just on on the

Unknown:

coasts. So it was a challenge for us in raising capital. And

Unknown:

not only we know, you know, the story about female founders and

Unknown:

their struggles with with raising capital, but also, you

Unknown:

know, being located where we were, but, you know, we raised

Unknown:

millions of dollars in the middle of a pandemic, because

Unknown:

our product was providing value for people, and in a drugless

Unknown:

way, and people took notice. And so, you know, Colombia has a

Unknown:

great many future unicorns, with the likes of Zapier and

Unknown:

equipment share, Veterans United Beyond Meat also has as roots in

Unknown:

in Columbia, Missouri. And we're at a strategic advantage

Unknown:

compared to the coasts because our cost of goods is

Unknown:

significantly lower. And so those investment dollars go

Unknown:

further. And also, you know, based in the Midwest, we build

Unknown:

our companies on revenue, not just investment dollars, which

Unknown:

makes us more capital efficient, going forward. So what some

Unknown:

first, you know, Mike seemed to the outsider as a strategic

Unknown:

disadvantage, it was actually an advantage, because we were able

Unknown:

to do more with less.

Unknown:

Do you have any, that I do think that that's a very use

Unknown:

intelligent way to build companies, and especially in a

Unknown:

world where we've seen many a company say, profit doesn't

Unknown:

matter, and really go for it. And there's a place for that,

Unknown:

too, I'm not denying that. But for people who are thinking of,

Unknown:

perhaps not Uber sized ventures,

Unknown:

and even I know that you you've run a good mid sized outfit

Unknown:

where you are, but do you have any advice for people who are

Unknown:

looking to start, and particularly in the area here in

Unknown:

in the Midwest? Were looking to start their own? Is there

Unknown:

anything that you would redo if you could go back, you know, to

Unknown:

the six years ago, since you've been in business? Yeah. So you

Unknown:

need to start their own companies, people who are

Unknown:

getting ready, yeah, yeah. So if you're a first time

Unknown:

entrepreneur, keep in mind that your family, your friends, or

Unknown:

your support network, they are your first co founders. So

Unknown:

before you even, you know, set foot on stepping out and forming

Unknown:

a company, you need to make money and make sure your co

Unknown:

founders, your family and friends are okay, with you being

Unknown:

away and distracted with this huge commitment, because it is a

Unknown:

huge commitment. You can't just stick your toe in the water, you

Unknown:

know, you have to cannonball in, in order to immerse yourself to

Unknown:

build a successful company. So keep in mind that your family is

Unknown:

your first co founder. In those early days, you will have a

Unknown:

large amount of people trying to take a lot of equity from you,

Unknown:

whether it be an accelerator programs that takes significant

Unknown:

amount of equity, I get some consult with that, and

Unknown:

surround yourself with advisors, who maybe in the early days,

Unknown:

they don't take any equity, they're just you know, giving

Unknown:

you their input, there are plenty of people out there who

Unknown:

are willing to help you know, another entrepreneur and give

Unknown:

honest opinions without taking any equity in the company.

Unknown:

Because ultimately, that's what you're building. When you take

Unknown:

on co founders, or other you know, founders in the company.

Unknown:

Before you award equity, you need to make sure that they are

Unknown:

going to be there when it's raining buckets in the middle of

Unknown:

the night.

Unknown:

And, you know, you find out as you go along in the journey that

Unknown:

some people that you encounter are their founders. They are

Unknown:

they're all you know, all the time. And

Unknown:

they have that founders mindset, and then you have others who are

Unknown:

employees, and, you know, great great employees in the company,

Unknown:

but perhaps, you know, they value

Unknown:

not getting up at two in the morning or, you know, going that

Unknown:

extra mile or, you know, working on weekends. You know, they're

Unknown:

the people who value that and which is great. You need both

Unknown:

kinds of people in the company. You need founders and then you

Unknown:

have employees. And so make sure when you bring people on that

Unknown:

you know before

Unknown:

You award them that

Unknown:

founder status or that equity, that you make sure that you

Unknown:

explain that there is a difference between an equity

Unknown:

holder in the company and also, you know, a regular employee,

Unknown:

you know, and, and that greater greater responsibility. Because

Unknown:

early on a lot of companies, that's that's a common mistake

Unknown:

that they get. I also had someone who told me once that

Unknown:

before you want to hire anyone, take a shower, and ask yourself,

Unknown:

do you really need this person? And early on? That was great for

Unknown:

us? Because,

Unknown:

yeah, I mean, as you get older is your company advances that

Unknown:

you need to scale faster, that mindset does not work. But in

Unknown:

the early days, you think, Oh, well, I have this project, I

Unknown:

need to hire someone for that project. Now, chances are, you

Unknown:

need a contractor that can do that one time project, and then

Unknown:

then they're done. And so, you know, granted, I was doing a,

Unknown:

you know, a one woman show for a significant amount of time, but

Unknown:

it also allowed you to retain a lot of equity in company. And

Unknown:

then the last piece of advice that I would give you is that

Unknown:

anyone who is going to work on your apps or your development

Unknown:

needs to have ironclad work product ownership agreements.

Unknown:

And so whether it be through your IP attorney, or, you know,

Unknown:

whatever legal you have no one touches you don't get into any

Unknown:

conversation until you either signed a nondisclosure agreement

Unknown:

or with that potential contractor, or you've hammered

Unknown:

out that work product ownership agreement, so that it's clear

Unknown:

that the company owns that IP. And then okay, sorry, the fourth

Unknown:

one is that even if you don't think you have intellectual

Unknown:

property, get an IP console. And if you have one firm that tells

Unknown:

you well, there's nothing patentable here, it's just

Unknown:

software, go to another one.

Unknown:

Because we encountered that early on. And we now have, you

Unknown:

know, very significant, broad, valuable patents in that space,

Unknown:

connecting consumer wearables to the to the metaverse, but even

Unknown:

if you think I owe there's nothing to be protected here.

Unknown:

It's just software or whatever. No, it's not just software,

Unknown:

there's a system and a method that can be protected. And which

Unknown:

is, you know, very valuable, in a future exit for a company or a

Unknown:

company trying to raise venture capital.

Unknown:

Those were all really great pieces of advice. The one last

Unknown:

thing I want to ask you about when it comes to building a

Unknown:

company and where you are in middle America, is were there

Unknown:

any events or things? Obviously, the pitch competition is huge

Unknown:

for the NFL, but were there any ones very early on where it was

Unknown:

like, this is where I got a good mentor? This is where I learned

Unknown:

a lot, or this is what helps my business grow? Was there

Unknown:

anything any events or even I don't know, like going to

Unknown:

university and speaking or things of that nature, where you

Unknown:

were able to put yourself out there and really see a return on

Unknown:

that? Absolutely. You were you were involved. We were involved

Unknown:

in about a half a dozen different accelerator programs,

Unknown:

where we just kept learning, learning, learning, learning,

Unknown:

stadia adventures, they have an accelerator program for human

Unknown:

performance and sports enterprise companies. That was

Unknown:

phenomenal. The mentors in that group really move the needle and

Unknown:

introduced us to some important people in industry,

Unknown:

as well as mass challenge. We won a prize at the MassChallenge

Unknown:

Houston program, which also introduced us to some very

Unknown:

important advisors for us that have you know, significantly

Unknown:

moved the needle for helium. And then in our very early days, we

Unknown:

were part of a program called Mizzou venture mentoring

Unknown:

service. And all universities have an entrepreneurship. Most

Unknown:

of them do mentoring service. They also have an

Unknown:

entrepreneurship legal clinics. So if you can't afford an

Unknown:

attorney for an IP Console, go to them they might have, you

Unknown:

know, the ability to line one up for you. And those mentors were

Unknown:

our first board of directors before we had a board of

Unknown:

directors and you know, as a company, you want to keep that

Unknown:

board small. So surrendering yourself with a variety of

Unknown:

mentors who can counsel you on you know, your pro forma

Unknown:

you know, legal questions, employee equity plans, you know,

Unknown:

all those kinds of questions that come up in forming a

Unknown:

company, so they don't just have

Unknown:

have to be a

Unknown:

board of directors, you can surround yourself with mentors

Unknown:

and that that early day and they were very instrumental in our

Unknown:

growth and development.

Unknown:

So many good resources in there. So I hope that folks out there

Unknown:

who are listening can can take a lot of those and run with them.

Unknown:

Before we get into the last little segment, and we're

Unknown:

running up on time. So I'm trying because so speedy, I'm

Unknown:

going to do a quick summary of what we talked about. We started

Unknown:

with your past in journalism, and how it was a turn and burn

Unknown:

industry very difficult. You had to tell the story of the worst

Unknown:

day of many people's lives and put yourself in the shoes of

Unknown:

those people to do that. And so you had your own kind of journey

Unknown:

with mental health and mental health struggles that really

Unknown:

motivated you to then later on Create helium in conjunction

Unknown:

with some other experiences, helping veterans and doing lots

Unknown:

of cool stuff, which I just thought was a really cool kind

Unknown:

of origin story for you. Helium is an accessible AR VR world and

Unknown:

set fresh set of worlds. To help you learn about your own neural

Unknown:

patterns. There's an associated helium score to keep track of

Unknown:

how you're interacting with the app and how well you're kind of

Unknown:

learning yourself. The VR is the more immersive form that can

Unknown:

where a lot of think, deep learning can take place. But the

Unknown:

AR is AR is more of kind of an accessible form. And they are,

Unknown:

they do work in conjunction with each other to create portable

Unknown:

experiences to help you no matter where you may be

Unknown:

physically. And when you need time to actually downshift

Unknown:

there, they're asleep. Ium is also a companion product. I love

Unknown:

the names of these things. As a side note, that sleep Ium is a

Unknown:

companion product product specifically designed to

Unknown:

downshift the nervous system, it's needed to be consumed

Unknown:

laying down before bed. And it can be considered part of a

Unknown:

regular sleep hygiene routine, which I thought was a great

Unknown:

term. And we talked about developing cross platform and

Unknown:

how it is difficult, you started having to develop individual

Unknown:

apps for each headset. As time goes on. There's more tools to

Unknown:

help but six years is quite a long time in the VR space. And I

Unknown:

know that at first, you I know you've been through a lot with

Unknown:

getting that app up and running. And as of right now AR and VR

Unknown:

are blending into each other to form XR, so the experiences are

Unknown:

companion to each other and encourage continuity between

Unknown:

what users learned on from one to the other. We then got into

Unknown:

discussion on the metaverse and how it is the place to

Unknown:

collectively or individually experience virtual worlds, but

Unknown:

that you are looking forward to the power that comes from group

Unknown:

activities. And as more folks join experiences will only get

Unknown:

better. We shifted to talk about media diets and why they're

Unknown:

important. There are risks to technology consumption, and

Unknown:

young people in particular are facing a mental health crisis in

Unknown:

conjunction with the rise of social media and emerging

Unknown:

technology. But maintaining a medium diet will help you

Unknown:

prevent or prevent some of those more difficult things that can

Unknown:

come with technology. It's important to temper your media

Unknown:

consumption with reality. And helium media aims to be a

Unknown:

positive fiber in that medium media diet to create calming

Unknown:

memories that you can then return to in stressful

Unknown:

situations. So one thing that I thought was really key is that

Unknown:

you like to create memories for people who may not be able to

Unknown:

actually explore those same physical worlds, or have access

Unknown:

to those same physical worlds but still can implant the memory

Unknown:

to return to either in a awake, a woken state, awakened state,

Unknown:

waken state, or a dream state, whatever that word may be. And

Unknown:

the last thing we kind of ended on was a discussion on

Unknown:

entrepreneurship and how you were able to build your business

Unknown:

in the middle of the Silicon Prairie in Missouri, talked

Unknown:

about how raising capital can be challenging, especially at first

Unknown:

and particularly for female founders, that you were able to

Unknown:

raise because the product was providing value. And you use

Unknown:

that to build revenue so that you didn't have to them rely as

Unknown:

much on the investment cycle. Family and friends are your

Unknown:

first co founders. So make sure they're ready for the journey as

Unknown:

well. In the early days, people will try to take large amounts

Unknown:

of equity. So be wary. Find good mentors, find good folks who

Unknown:

could provide advice for free, not for free, whatever it may

Unknown:

be, find that balance where you can actually get that advice.

Unknown:

You need to consider whether you need employees or contractors.

Unknown:

As you said in the early days, take a shower, which I think is

Unknown:

akin to slipping on a helium VR said if I would like to say

Unknown:

something myself,

Unknown:

get ironclad work product ownership agreements, get IP

Unknown:

consults, so you can protect yourself very early on and look

Unknown:

for accelerator programs to help you grow. local universities

Unknown:

tend to have a lot of resources, and also look for nationwide

Unknown:

competitions to get your product out there. So I think that

Unknown:

there's so many nuggets for people to follow up on whether

Unknown:

they are people looking to improve their own situations,

Unknown:

people looking to start a company so much in here that I

Unknown:

can't wait to get out in the world. So thank you so much.

Unknown:

The last little segment I love to wrap up with what I call a

Unknown:

moment of reflection. And I sort of asked this question earlier

Unknown:

on. So I would love for you to reach back to a different point

Unknown:

in your career. The question I like to ask is, what is one

Unknown:

thing you would like to tell your younger self about getting

Unknown:

into the emerging tech industry and being successful?

Unknown:

That knows our data. They are fertilizer that will help you

Unknown:

grow and you're going to experience a lot of noes. And

Unknown:

celebrate them because they will get you one step closer to a

Unknown:

yes. Oh, we like that. That's a good reminder can be so easy to

Unknown:

feel down after No, but you're right. It's a it's an

Unknown:

opportunity. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. This has

Unknown:

been such a joy such a breath of fresh air for me.

Unknown:

You have a beautiful spirit and I can I can feel that among your

Unknown:

listeners as well. So Oh, well thank you that just warms me.

Unknown:

Where can people find you follow you find helium I know it's in

Unknown:

the app store so everyone should go download it. But any social

Unknown:

media channels you want to plug articles whatever, give us give

Unknown:

us the info. We're on Twitter at helium X are tick tock Facebook,

Unknown:

Instagram, LinkedIn and go to try helium.com And that's try h

Unknown:

e a. L I E om like healing tried helium.com So cool. So do you

Unknown:

have any personal social media accounts that you'd like to use?

Unknown:

With an age mid mo SAR ah mid Mo, on on Twitter, among

Unknown:

Tiktok and Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn as well?

Unknown:

Yes. Go follow Sarah. share her work. share her thoughts. So

Unknown:

cool. For all the listeners out there. Be sure to leave those

Unknown:

five star ratings and reviews. Check out other holodeck media

Unknown:

podcasts including men of business and business of

Unknown:

esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn at wins

Unknown:

at Lindsey pass. You catch me Wednesday nights in the business

Unknown:

of esports. Life After Show. You can catch this podcast in your

Unknown:

feed every week. See you next week. Thanks for joining us here

Unknown:

on meta woman. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast

Unknown:

everywhere you get your podcasts leave a five star review and

Unknown:

tell your friends family and colleagues all about us. Also,

Unknown:

make sure to follow meta TV on all socials to get more of the

Unknown:

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About the Podcast

META Woman
Weekly metaverse content - for women, by women
Meta Woman will focus on addressing the issues, opportunities, and challenges facing women in the development of the Metaverse. Top female executives and business people operating within the gaming and crypto industries bring a wide range of perspectives through regular guest appearances.