Episode 37

full
Published on:

9th Aug 2022

37. Neopets That Can Vote

Are you interested in putting fun back into esports? This is the episode for you! Paige Cameron, VP of Miscellanea and general wizard from Beastcoast, joins me to talk about building an international esports organization, what opportunities are out there, and what it's like to constantly adapt and switch roles. Digressions include digital goods, fan engagement strategies, how old neopets are, the queer community in South America, and managing more than one Twitter page at a time.

Episode Resources:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/state-lgbtq-rights-latin-america-0

https://beastcoast.gg/

Transcript
Unknown:

Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now.

Lindsay Poss:

Hello, and welcome to the meta woman podcast part

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of the holodeck media Podcast Network. I'm your host, Lindsay

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the last pass and from struggle to success. We're covering it

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all. To our returning listeners. Thank you so much for listening

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to me jabber away every week. I appreciate it. And for all the

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new listeners out there, welcome. I hope you enjoy. I

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hope you'll stick around. Today I am delighted to welcome Paige

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Cameron from beast coast, which I also think is a cool name

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because that's what we call the Coast Guard East Coast her life

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page is VP of miscellania. Opposition, I think many folks

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out there can understand. viscose is an esports

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organization that in its own words, emphasizes quality

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content, entertainment and community engagement while

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keeping the focus on the players overall wellbeing and happiness.

Lindsay Poss:

The page. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on

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today.

Unknown:

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to

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talk about could you

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introduce yourself a little bit more? give the

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audience a bit of your background and what viscose

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does, do you all are?

Unknown:

Yeah, so I'm Paige. I'm the VP of miscellania. I'm like

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technically the VP of brands. So I oversee kind of like what

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these coasts overall five is, I inherited that physician kind of

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just by being the first employee of east coast, the CEO of East

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Coast grant, one of my closest friends, and he came to me and

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he was like, I'm gonna start at esports. org. And I think that

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everybody has that experience where your friend has a crazy

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idea, and you don't really believe that he's gonna pull it

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off. And you're like, I stand behind you come to me, you know,

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a month laters like I hired to players page, I need a logo. And

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so you know, here we are five years later, actually, we just

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celebrated our fifth birthday depending on when this airs. And

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it's just like, it's been a crazy ride. And I just like love

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all the things I've been able to do these coasters just like

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we're just trying to do, being great are huge, passionate fans

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of video games of all sorts, and we're trying to bring that

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energy, the people in the community who you know, are,

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we're all here because we like it. Video games are fun and

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great. And like that's the energy we're trying to bring

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into this into the scene. So happy to be here.

Lindsay Poss:

So find that actually reminds me we said

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friends and crazy ideas. I regularly my husband regularly

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comes up with what he thinks are new and original inventions. And

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I always read them on a scale of like how much money I think

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they'll make out of them recently, I said I think you'll

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make 10s of dollars and he was none too pleased. particular

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rate and more dollars previously, but you know, well,

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clearly base cost me more than $100, which is good, because

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you've been able to grow and expand and bring on all kinds of

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new teams players and get into all kinds of stuff. We're now

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your VP of brands slash miscellaneous. Very cool. I want

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to step back and actually talk about your experience with

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design because like you said, you started with a logo design.

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I know that design has been a huge part of the work you've

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done at East Coast. So walk me through what you did prior what

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your education was like and how you've kind of incorporated

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design throughout your career to be where you are now.

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So I started like I'm a graphic designer by trade, I

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have a silly little degree from a silly little fake college. I

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think a lot of artists out there go to like, it's like, I don't

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want to drop any names. But every knows like, it's a quick

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two year program that is guaranteed to get you and then

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it goes bankrupt, like four days after you after you graduate.

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That was my experience. But what it really gave me was a chance

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to practice a chance to network and a chance to like learn from

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a couple of like really good professors. And so I graduated

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from the silly little program and I was working in sort of 3d,

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I was working with my partner on Dota two cosmetics, because I

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was a huge fan of League of Legends in high school and Dota

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two is a lot like League of Legends, but don't tell anybody

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that I said that. And so it was like an easy switch for me as an

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artist who was interested in this game of start, like looking

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into the way that they've created like a community.

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Community sourced art project almost where a lot of the

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cosmetic items in that game come from the community. So it was it

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was a natural fit. I had graphic design experience. I had like 3d

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model texture experience from some of my own crazy projects as

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a kid. And that's how I ended up in Dota basically going to these

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crazy, big events, you know, going to TI for the first time,

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ici four was my first event. And I had like a couple of small

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things in the game that had managed to get me invited, which

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was incredible. It felt very much like a grassroots story for

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me growing up in a small town, you know, where like, video

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games get made in like LA and Toronto and I'm in Halifax and

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video games don't get made here, really. I mean, they do now,

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but, um, and so that's how I ended up in Dota. And it was I

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met grant. And he was just like another passionate guy. He had a

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similar background. He had done some stuff for TF two. Same like

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community sourced projects cosmetics. And he was really

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passionate about you have to he's really passionate about it.

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And we just struck up a friendship. So I think I was one

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of the people that we chat a lot about how there are gaps in the

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industry, like, you know, people weren't making super cool merch

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or people weren't like making there were a lot of like spicy

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people in esports like running stuff kind of really like below

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board just like kind of like not totally safe for or kind or

Lindsay Poss:

fair, I guess they've been lawsuits.

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Lawsuits, right. And so we've talked a lot about how

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just like, it seems like, the industry just really needs

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somebody who cares about how they look and like cares about

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the people that they're working with. And grant just thought

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that was us. And so I was like, I don't know how much management

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skill I have to like, run an organization, but I am a

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designer, and I have that experience. And I have

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connections. So like, if we're gonna go for it, I'll bring what

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I have. And it was really helpful because I think people

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resonated with our vibe right away, we tried to bring

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something that was a little bit, at least when we started these

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posts, the industry was very gunmetal and red, you know what

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I mean? It was very just like, like, like cobalt and steel,

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like it was it was very masculine. And, and I don't

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think there's anything wrong with that aesthetic. I know, I

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have a lot of like, the very sleek, aluminum. Stuff to like

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that for that paraphernalia. Yeah, exactly. I'm a gamer, I

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have it, I run a machine. But I wanted something a little bit

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brighter and a little bit more fun and a little bit more like

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gender neutral. I don't think any color really has a gender.

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But I want something that could appeal to more people. And so

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that's why I

Lindsay Poss:

just interject really quick. That's actually a

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good point. Because it's not even just about, like, is it

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masculine or feminine, but a lot of yeah, there's not a lot of

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just like, right on stuff doesn't have to be gendered at

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all, just to be fun. Exactly.

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The industry is growing. In that respect, I

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think that FlyQuest has done a really good job with their

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branding, I think that like, you know, CLOUD NINE has always had

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this bright blue color that we've admired, definitely been

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one of our major inspirations for like, bringing something

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bigger. But yeah, we that's what we wanted to do. So we picked

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this really trendy teal color, and it seems to never go to

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France. So I'm really happy with that. And so like my design

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sensibilities have always been, you know, a little bit, a little

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bit minimalist, a little bit, you know, clean, sharp, and it

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didn't always mesh super well with the with the established

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esport aesthetic. But I think people were interested in seeing

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what we had, because it was fresh and different, wasn't 100%

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On time all the time, you know what I mean?

Lindsay Poss:

That's so fun. And I want to kind of pick on a

Lindsay Poss:

little bit of what you said in there, one of the things that

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you noted is that you weren't someone that had managed people

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or necessarily had an interest in that coming in and what I

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know, it was like top priority, even if you might have had an

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interest, but I've been reading and thinking more about

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managerial roles and how some managerial roles like for

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example, when you're a game developer can involve more about

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getting the product out there and managing the product

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development that can lead to actual team. Obviously, that's a

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very high level example. But and it's not always true that

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developing a product, you have to have a team kind of but the

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point is some managerial roles involve managing people and

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others involved managing kind of more high level technical stuff.

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And I've also been thinking about how some folks really want

Lindsay Poss:

to manage others and are into those kinds of personal personal

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relationships. While some are definitely more again, on the

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product and on the creation. You're in a role now where

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you're not only doing the design portion at the source, but

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you're also managing people. So where do you fall on that

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spectrum of being interested in working with people and creating

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the team environment versus working on product and

Lindsay Poss:

development and kind of overseeing, but maybe not. So in

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the nitty gritty in the personal relationship side,

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I definitely migrated I think when I started, and I

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think a lot of people have a similar experience working in

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this industry where you have this like impostor syndrome,

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where it's just like, if I'm not doing anything, they're gonna

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notice that I'm not good at anything. And I'm gonna get,

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like, found out for being a liar and an imposter. And so that was

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a thing that I really had to get over. Because, like you said,

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the first, probably four years of these posts, I was doing the

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nitty gritty, and I enjoy design. I absolutely, like

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that's why I went to school, I like putting stuff down on

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paper, I love, love seeing something at the end of the day

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that I created. But as as the East Coast grew, when we had

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more more stuff, more things, and more people, it just didn't

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become tenable for me to be the person putting pen to paper

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every day, as it were, and we you know, we hired staff. And so

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that just immediately creates this, this kind of crisis of

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imposter syndrome, where she's like, well, if I just tell my

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staff what to do, then what am I doing all day, you know,

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completely ignoring all the things that I definitely have to

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do all day now as a manager, but it just like feels like, I'll

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just be sitting around doing nothing. And they'll notice that

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I'm not even important. And but that's just not true. And so I

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think what really helped me kind of move from the do it the doer

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perspective, to the delegate perspective was just like making

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sure that I was hiring people that understood. And like I vibe

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with, and I feel like now I love my team. And it's weird to say

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my team, because I've never like felt like I was going to be

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somebody's boss. But I have a social team and I have a design

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team. And they just, it was about hiring people, for me that

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like, had camaraderie, like had immunity. And like, we could

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have a real conversation, I never want to be just like the

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guy in the office, like delegating, I want to, I want it

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to be a partnership, because we are we are a team. And it was,

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at least for me, understanding that, at the end of the day, the

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buck stops with me. So if I hire the wrong person, and they don't

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get the job done, like that's on me, and like communicating to my

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team that, like, if they're not doing a good job, it's because I

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didn't give them the tools as a manager to do a good job, you

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know, to a certain extent everybody understands, but just

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like making sure that they understand that it's a

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relationship, it's a give and take, it's not just me bossing

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you around, it's like, if you're missing something that's on me,

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I'm your boss, if you if you forget something that's on me

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for not like, making sure it was scheduled. And I think that that

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honesty, and that back and forth, has helped my manager

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skills, my managers like style develop in a way that seems you

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know, I don't want to speak for my staff, they probably made it

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there at home, just like my boss sucks so bad. But it seems like

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we have a really good, really good team, and it's helped me

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grow my, my skills, I feel kind of good about where I am, I feel

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like I've become a leader. I don't know, if I was a leader in

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the beginning of east coast, I was just some guy me and grant,

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were just some guys, you know, thrown into this, this entire

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experience. But I feel like I have the skills. Now. I've

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worked with people. And I am a leader. And it feels really good

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because I like people and I like seeing people succeed. And so if

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I can facilitate that, like that's, that's what I want to be

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able to do. So

Lindsay Poss:

I think that you touched on something really

Lindsay Poss:

good. They're saying that, first of all, you didn't walk in

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knowing exactly what your style was going to be as the manager

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and you let it develop. But secondly, that you had to kind

Lindsay Poss:

of be pushing past the imposter syndrome portion of that, in

Lindsay Poss:

order to actually. Yeah,

Unknown:

well, it's like, I don't know, I think I spoke to

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everybody about impostor syndrome. I think everybody has

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it. Everybody feels like they're looking around, like everybody

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else is doing great. And I'm doing awful. But like me, and

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grant me like, so long. We're just like, What are you doing?

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You know, so?

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, I completely get that. And I want to actually

Lindsay Poss:

talk about what it was like at the beginning, because you were

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you were the second person there. After grant. And one of

Lindsay Poss:

the unique holes in the, from the description I read in the

Lindsay Poss:

beginning is that you all focus on happiness of your creators.

Lindsay Poss:

So what did that look like building that into the

Lindsay Poss:

beginning? Like, was there a team meeting in the beginning?

Lindsay Poss:

Like, oh, you know, we're gonna make everyone happy? Or is it

Lindsay Poss:

more than what you're talking about before with? We see the

Lindsay Poss:

environment, we see what's out there, and we think we have a

Lindsay Poss:

different take on it. We want to put our own spin on it.

Unknown:

I definitely think it's, you know, it's definitely

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like the second thing a little bit with a little, you know,

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with a little bit of the first thing, we've definitely tried to

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have meetings, which like, what does it mean to focus on player

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happiness, and it was, was very much so a product of like, it

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felt like at that point, the industry is always in a in a

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process of becoming more and more corporate mainstream. And

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like, that's not a bad thing. I think we have different sources

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of revenue through this, we have more eyes on us, like it's

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really good. But I think that at least at this point would be

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formed, it just like felt like there are people getting in who

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weren't super endemic to the scene and didn't necessarily

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know what they're getting themselves into. And the people

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who were endemic, the scene were not necessarily practiced in,

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like their skills enough to like, make it happen fairly. And

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so we were just like, Grant had some experience in the corporate

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side, like, I guess I was, I was cool enough to take along. And

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so we were like, I think if we just treat people the way we

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want to be treated, and we pay them on time, which was, I

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think, a big deal at that point, then like, then we can do

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something important here. And we were we were, we were seeing a

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lot of companies starting up getting like $10 million in

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investments and then falling apart. And like, that's great,

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cool. That's exciting. If I would love to a million dollars

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in investments out of nowhere, but I don't want to fall apart.

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So it's like, I'm available for anybody out there have $10

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million

Lindsay Poss:

from free, thank you. Um,

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if, if we could grow in a way that was sustainable, then

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we wouldn't have that problem where we like suddenly sprouted

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up and fell apart. And so we were focused on like, taking on

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things that we could handle, you know, growing with those people

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being honest with those people. Our first two hires were Mike

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Hayes and Mr. Are both incredible, like Smash players,

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like Ace played melee. I think he's retired now. And as far as

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still playing ultimate now, just like people who had not had a

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whole lot of like, they had lots of experience, but they weren't

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looking directly for a sponsor at the time, but grants honesty

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and his commitment to just like, let's build something here right

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now, that makes sense for you, that they're both on board and I

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think that that lends us a lot of credibility. And it was just

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like building his honest connection and just like paying

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people on time, like, we've always felt like we're

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grassroots like we, we hire people who are, who love the

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scenes that they're in, we do our best to understand the

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scenes that we're in. And we try to, like defer to the experts in

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the scene who are not necessarily the people in suits.

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They're the people, you know, in pools, like they're the people

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going out to, like, maybe you're terrible at Smash. But if you've

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been playing it for like, 10 years, I trust your judgment.

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And so being able to look for people who don't necessarily

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seem like the experts, but like, do have that experience, like

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looking into places where other people are not looking like

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that's what we want to do.

Lindsay Poss:

That makes sense. And speaking of looking in the

Lindsay Poss:

places where other people aren't looking, and I don't know that

Lindsay Poss:

this is true anymore. So I don't know, this out there is

Lindsay Poss:

negative. But one of the cool things about the East Coast is

Lindsay Poss:

how international it is how you feel feel teams in South America

Lindsay Poss:

especially so started with this kind of grassroots organization

Lindsay Poss:

focused on fun. And I will say like thinking about what it was

Lindsay Poss:

like to start an esports organization five years ago,

Lindsay Poss:

like we are in a completely different environment than it

Lindsay Poss:

was then. And I am positive that you you all were in a much

Lindsay Poss:

smaller pool of, of organizations trying to do what

Lindsay Poss:

you're doing. I think that we're recently there's been more folks

Lindsay Poss:

that have come forward and tried to put together but mental well

Lindsay Poss:

being and fun, more at the forefront. Great.

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I love having more, you know, competition makes us all

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happier. And if we're all working better to do a better

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job, right? The whole industry is healthier, that's good.

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There's

Lindsay Poss:

no There's no money in it, and you can find

Lindsay Poss:

better revenue strategies and sponsors understand more. So I

Lindsay Poss:

agree, I think like having parties in the space that are

Lindsay Poss:

doing that is good. But how did you grow from an RBC? I mean,

Lindsay Poss:

you're in Canada. I don't know where grant is, but. And then

Lindsay Poss:

you end up with teams in South America. So how did that happen?

Lindsay Poss:

What we were just looking

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like meet somebody and grant a big Dota fans, I told

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earlier the story that we've had at TI. And we ultimately when we

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sat down and started these posts, we were like, we have

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these two smash players, we love them to death. We love the Smash

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community, we love video games. But like we want to be in Dota,

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like Dota is where we started. It's our where our passion. It's

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our heart game. And so we were looking at, you know, the whole

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Dota scene. And it just so happened that there was this

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incredible South American team, I think it was CIA eight, they

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were signed under infamous, that's the roster we have now.

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And they came out of nowhere. And they surprised everybody

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because for a really long time, South America, I think in a lot

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of different esports has been under looked and underutilized.

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And be in grant having started viscose and like always felt

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like the underdog, we kind of attached yourself, we understood

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that sentiment, where it's just like, the whole world is looking

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at you and thinking that you're nothing. And then you come

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through and you're like, Oh, I taught a to TI like I'm

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competing with the best EU teams competing with the best NA

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teams. Like, you know, I can do it. And so we wanted to reach

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out to that team because it just like it made sense to us. We

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want to be in Dota really bad and we want to support this kind

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of growing industry. In Peru, there's like, there's a bunch

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more Dota teams now like and the South American fans, like our

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fans of Caribbean, like South American Dota fans with

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American, you know, esports fans are superduper passionate. And

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it was just like a market that was being underused,

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underserved, because like the rest of the global community

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just kind of wrote them off. Because like they don't have as

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much money to they don't have as much time to practice, they

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don't have as much like they're not that many resources and many

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sponsors. And so being able to like reach out to them, and work

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with them, like build a really cool theme house, you know, give

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them the resources they need, like succeed. And we have been

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succeeding we've been we've qualified for basically every

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major since we since we signed the team and the Dota team, our

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Dota team is the longest stable roster in Dota. History. So we

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signed them after their ti run and we've had them since and

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that's like the longest team longest any Dota team has stayed

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together as one unit like the the post ti shuffle the post

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major shuffle is like a massive, you know, it's a massive event,

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usually in Dota. It's similar in other esports, where it's just

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like, Okay, this team didn't this didn't work. This didn't

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work like they're trading players. But that's never

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happened to us, because our boys are, you know, they're

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committed, they're growing together, they understand like

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camaraderie, and like, those are all things that we at East

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Coast, you know, are also really passionate about, like

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commitment to growth, the camaraderie like fun. And so

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being able to do that, like super duper exciting, especially

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in in a in a region that's otherwise like, overlooked.

Lindsay Poss:

So that's so cool. How was it managing all of the

Lindsay Poss:

resources to build to grow and keep the team happy remotely?

Lindsay Poss:

Because if I'm not mistaken, I know that. I know that you

Lindsay Poss:

haven't spent much time down in Peru and I don't know how I

Unknown:

had a chance to go to Peru before the world fell

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apart. And I was like, Oh, I'll go next year. And then you know,

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but grant has been to Peru. A couple of you know, our English

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speaking staff has been approved. But generally you're

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right, it's remote. And it was like, it was really terrifying.

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And I know a lot of there's a couple of other orgs who feel

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that like resilient teams have come across the same issue like

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it is very challenging to suddenly have a massive fan base

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speaking a language you don't speak. So we you know, we tried

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to hire people who speak Spanish and Spanish is the main language

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of Peru. I think in Brazil, it's Portuguese. But in Peru, it's

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Spanish. So we try to hire people who are bilingual.

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Luckily, you know, they teach Spanish in schools in, in

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America. So there's more bilingual people there than

Unknown:

like, I speak French in English. So that doesn't help me any, any

Unknown:

good here. And then we reached out into the Peruvian seat. And

Unknown:

so the same way that we found these Peruvian players who were

Unknown:

super passionate and super talented. They were Peruvian

Unknown:

support staff. They're like, ready, just like excited to work

Unknown:

on the game that we love so much in some way. And so we have an

Unknown:

extremely talented, hard working, sales lead. His name is

Unknown:

Alejandro. And he does, you know, he goes above and beyond

Unknown:

he like gets us the connections to like Ruby businesses, but he

Unknown:

also will go to the team house and make sure the boys were

Unknown:

eating. Like he's the, he gave an interview after one of our

Unknown:

very good matches, and people were in charge, like, oh, the

Unknown:

the visco CEO is so charismatic, like, well, that's Alejandro,

Unknown:

he's our CEO, but you know, it Peru basically, he's the CEO,

Unknown:

like, he makes sure that our broken support staff have what

Unknown:

they need. And so it was about really connecting, it was again,

Unknown:

like looking to the people who have the most experience, even

Unknown:

if it's not immediately apparent to the kind of sensibilities of

Unknown:

we're ready with, like we're prepared for, like, you know,

Unknown:

getting over your biases and looking for people who are

Unknown:

they're, like ready to work. And Alejandro is one of them. We

Unknown:

have an incredible social media manager named SEAL who like,

Unknown:

just like knows how the Peruvian fanbase works, how they're, how

Unknown:

their memes are, he's like a mean, Master, you know what I

Unknown:

mean. And then we have like a bunch of like support staff, we

Unknown:

have content staff with Glenn, we've worked with, like, on site

Unknown:

people, the same people who are like producing the Dota, like

Unknown:

the, the professional season, or the esports, like we've worked

Unknown:

with them before, to like, make sure that content is good. And

Unknown:

so it's like, they're not the kind of people that I think, you

Unknown:

know, generally we thought we were going to be looking for

Unknown:

when we started these posts, but they're talented, they're

Unknown:

hardworking, and like, I am so privileged to work with them

Unknown:

every day.

Lindsay Poss:

That's so cool. And I think that is a testament

Lindsay Poss:

to what's going on, or how you all run the team that you've

Lindsay Poss:

been able to build that experience, very, very far. So

Lindsay Poss:

that's really neat. And so I wanted to kind of continue down

Lindsay Poss:

this thread of as an esports organization, what you're

Lindsay Poss:

thinking about. So one of the things that I've been thinking

Lindsay Poss:

about a lot lately is fan engagement. And that's because I

Lindsay Poss:

think that there's so much room for creativity and unique

Lindsay Poss:

experiences. And you just kind of noted that right like that

Lindsay Poss:

you have like a whole Peruvian means section that is

Lindsay Poss:

specifically kind of for your fans. And that that kind of

Lindsay Poss:

example is true across all kinds of sports and all kinds of

Lindsay Poss:

esports. But the nature of gaming is such that you have

Lindsay Poss:

such an opportunity to be super creative, and how you reach out

Lindsay Poss:

to fans. traditional sports a lot harder to get players

Lindsay Poss:

reactions when they're running around, or just in general,

Lindsay Poss:

like, I now actually see traditional athletes like

Lindsay Poss:

jumping on Twitch to be able to interact with fans a lot more.

Lindsay Poss:

But gaming itself is much more of a lean forward experience.

Lindsay Poss:

Like you're there with people. So what are some of the ways

Lindsay Poss:

you're thinking about fan engagement and still balancing

Lindsay Poss:

the priority of player happiness? Because you can't

Lindsay Poss:

just say, like, stream our eight hours a day so that our fans can

Lindsay Poss:

get to know you like, how are you what are you thinking about

Lindsay Poss:

building your fan engagement experiences around.

Unknown:

So there's, I think there's two like not like

Unknown:

pillars that I'm looking to, I think that liquid has done a

Unknown:

really good job with this where liquid plus system, they've

Unknown:

almost built their own little almost like a Metaverse where

Unknown:

they have, you can like sign up to follow them and everything

Unknown:

that they have. And they give you like little custom rewards.

Unknown:

And just like connections with the players and like you can get

Unknown:

physical rewards and digital rewards like they even give away

Unknown:

like the weapon skins sometimes. And that brings me to the second

Unknown:

pillar, at least in my mind, which is like Dota has the team

Unknown:

bundles. And I would love to do something almost even bigger

Unknown:

than that. But like the team bundles now it's like you can

Unknown:

buy something in game to show off where your favorite team is.

Unknown:

And so like I said, I came from Dota cosmetics, right? So hats,

Unknown:

you know, sets of items, and weapons and stuff, all this

Unknown:

custom stuff. And so my brain is always looking for ways to like

Unknown:

customize your character in these games in a way that also

Unknown:

shows off what you're doing, it doesn't they don't have Rainbow

Unknown:

Six to we're lucky enough to have two skins in the partner

Unknown:

program with Rainbow Six, you know, an MP five skin and an LMG

Unknown:

skin and I was like I got to design the AMPLIFi skin which

Unknown:

was like a very much return to form for me starting you know,

Unknown:

making Dota swords. And now making these post guns. It just

Unknown:

like felt really, really, really natural to me. And it's just

Unknown:

like it's a way that you can see yourself in the game. And so

Unknown:

it's it's you can support us, you can support the team you can

Unknown:

engage and they really people really feel like they're, you

Unknown:

know, connecting by like showing us you know, showing us off when

Unknown:

they're playing their games normally. And I really want to

Unknown:

find a way to make that bigger because I just love I love

Unknown:

making hats. I love making Dota hats. I love making custom

Unknown:

swords and I have all these ideas we have This incredible

Unknown:

mascot crest, and I want to put crest in every video game,

Unknown:

because I think crest looks like a video game character already.

Unknown:

Especially, I would love an avatar of crest in, you know, in

Unknown:

like VR chat, you know, I would love it after a little crush

Unknown:

charm on every Rainbow Six Gun and like a career in Dota. Two,

Unknown:

it's like, that's what I'm looking for. And I think that's

Unknown:

the kind of stuff that resonates with people. Ultimately, games

Unknown:

are fun to watch. But a lot of people are watching those games,

Unknown:

because they're also fun to play. And so making sure that we

Unknown:

can connect that to people is really good. And like, if we can

Unknown:

take the liquid bus system where you're like, building this

Unknown:

community, you know, you're giving them customer rewards,

Unknown:

and you're connecting with your fans almost directly in this

Unknown:

like secret fan club kind of way, and use that system to give

Unknown:

away like special items, you know, special avatars, you know,

Unknown:

that's like where I want to be, I think that's the perfect blend

Unknown:

of the things that I want to do to connect with our fans.

Unknown:

Because we have some really great passionate people. It's

Unknown:

wild, I know that we don't have the hugest fan base, we're not

Unknown:

the biggest esports. org in the world. But I have this concept

Unknown:

of like the 100 true fans, where it's like real success doesn't

Unknown:

mean need to be massive. You just need 100 People who are

Unknown:

willing to spend $100 on whatever you put out. And when I

Unknown:

like, look out into these coasts, community and I see

Unknown:

those 100 people like that's what they going, you know, I

Unknown:

mean, it's like, I gotta make little crest tchotchkes for

Unknown:

these people. Because like, that's, that's, that's who I

Unknown:

really that's who I want to connect with, right?

Lindsay Poss:

I like that you say call them tchotchkes? No, I

Lindsay Poss:

actually liked that description, though. Because I've had, I've

Lindsay Poss:

had a running joke on the show that if you have ever owned,

Lindsay Poss:

bought or gifted a Funko, pop, I don't want to hear your opinion

Lindsay Poss:

on NF T's. Because I think that there's like, people collect

Lindsay Poss:

things that they like, just because they like them. And

Lindsay Poss:

whether it's a digital good or real world good. Or whatever it

Lindsay Poss:

may be. I do think that it's an extremely valuable way of

Lindsay Poss:

engaging with an audience and tchotchkes are things that like

Lindsay Poss:

humans have liked forever. I mean, we have like pet rocks in

Lindsay Poss:

the 80s. Right, like, people will pay for tchotchkes and I

Lindsay Poss:

don't think that that is a I don't think that's a bad thing.

Lindsay Poss:

And I feel like there's so many people who are trying to almost

Lindsay Poss:

correct that and say, like, No, it has to be the authenticity

Lindsay Poss:

thing, like it has to everything has to be like really authentic

Lindsay Poss:

and real. And it's like, no, just make me a cute tchotchke

Lindsay Poss:

that I can show off to everyone.

Unknown:

Like I have, you know, I have my own concerns, you

Unknown:

know, conversations about about NF T's about crypto, all that

Unknown:

stuff. But like at the end of the day, this house that I live

Unknown:

in right now was paid for by Dota hats, right? And so like I

Unknown:

digital items do have value and like Gabe Newell proved that 15

Unknown:

years ago when he was like TF two has hats. Now, I don't even

Unknown:

know if it was, like 10 years ago, I don't know what time is

Unknown:

it whatever. Like when someone paid $400 for an unusual TF two

Unknown:

hat, like, digital items have value and they matter to people.

Unknown:

And if I can give something to somebody and make like that they

Unknown:

care about then I feel I feel good about that. Generally.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah. And that's more the point that I'm making.

Lindsay Poss:

There's a whole NF T's our whole other issue, but the digital

Lindsay Poss:

assets, digital goods, digital trading, that's something that's

Lindsay Poss:

been around for quite a long time. Yeah, I think that people

Lindsay Poss:

have, it's almost like they're like, so used to it that when

Lindsay Poss:

you switch the name, they get really offended, but like we've

Lindsay Poss:

been doing there's issues for sure, but, but we

Unknown:

can find a way to do this, you know, safe, good. And

Unknown:

it could make sense. We can make this make sense.

Lindsay Poss:

Like we said, don't I had them off? It's a

Lindsay Poss:

white lawsuit

Unknown:

about light CSGO gambling issues, but you know

Unknown:

what?

Lindsay Poss:

We'll work through it and you know, we'll have a

Lindsay Poss:

problem. Once speaking of this whole kind of discussion, you

Lindsay Poss:

are someone who you know who works in design who has worked

Lindsay Poss:

with digital goods. What are you looking forward to with the

Lindsay Poss:

development of the metaverse and further technologies? I know you

Lindsay Poss:

you mentioned that, like, almost a mini Metaverse as the as you

Lindsay Poss:

previously called it.

Unknown:

I think yeah, I think the concept of a Metaverse has

Unknown:

existed for a really long time. Like I when I started doing

Unknown:

texturing like when I started practicing my skills as a

Unknown:

teenager was in this like, silly little digital world called MBU,

Unknown:

which is like a chat client, where you had your own little

Unknown:

character, your avatar, it's very similar to Second Life,

Unknown:

which I think is something that a lot of other people point to

Unknown:

to say like the metaverse concept has you know existed for

Unknown:

a really long time you know, so like I had I just see often when

Unknown:

I was growing up the stuff was a little bit kind of undergrad it

Unknown:

was it was not mainstream and I think there's a lot of

Unknown:

conversation now that like people who didn't know this

Unknown:

stuff existed are now learning about it for better or for worse

Unknown:

and but we can we can take that information that that new

Unknown:

knowledge of like turn it into something good and I think it'll

Unknown:

make people more understanding of like stuff like digital

Unknown:

digital goods that do have value like go to hats right? And so

Unknown:

like bringing that to more people and having them

Unknown:

understand and you know, potentially even enjoy all that

Unknown:

all that kind of stuff like I don't know I when I was a kid I

Unknown:

played do pets right? I collected neopoints I got my

Unknown:

little like, got my new pets little outfits now. I mean, like

Unknown:

I paint them different colors, right? Like, that helped me a

Unknown:

lot of joy. It

Lindsay Poss:

still brings me along. Yeah. figure Neopets are

Lindsay Poss:

still surviving and thriving. They are

Unknown:

good Believe it or not, I log in at least once a month

Unknown:

to make sure they're fed. Yeah, because like, and like that

Unknown:

stuff is like 15 like my Neopets accounts like 18 years old now

Unknown:

my Neopets account vote, which is insane to me. But it's just

Unknown:

like that kind of that little bit of joy that little bit of

Unknown:

like, of, you know, ownership and, and creativity has carried

Unknown:

me through my whole life. And so like being able to potentially

Unknown:

bring that to somebody else, to, you know, grow that to introduce

Unknown:

more people with the concept of that and like, get them

Unknown:

interested in video games in general, you know, connecting

Unknown:

with other people digitally out, you know how valuable that is.

Unknown:

And then like esports, and video games is like a concept. I think

Unknown:

it all comes together like it's all connected.

Lindsay Poss:

And yeah, and there's real value in all of

Lindsay Poss:

that with esports. And pulling on that perfect kind of

Lindsay Poss:

transition to the next question. But how do you think esports and

Lindsay Poss:

competitive gaming? What do you think the look like in the

Lindsay Poss:

metaverse? Like? Do you think it'll be similar to how we kind

Lindsay Poss:

of have structures now? Or do you think that things will look

Lindsay Poss:

different when it comes specifically to kind of

Lindsay Poss:

competitive games? Honestly,

Unknown:

I I'm like a huge VR person. Like I was one of the

Unknown:

first people to buy an HTC Vive, I was so lucky. That event that

Unknown:

I went to the TI TI for or TX was ti five, like valve was

Unknown:

like, previewing the Vive. And I have to try it for the first

Unknown:

time and it blew my mind. And so like, I've been a VR, you know,

Unknown:

what's the word like? Evangelist, I've been a VR

Unknown:

evangelist ever since that moment, because like this big

Unknown:

whale came by and like this concept of presence, like it

Unknown:

really, it really made me exciting, excited. And then this

Unknown:

year, the past couple of years, where we haven't been able to go

Unknown:

to events, I've been like, so sad about it. I miss events. And

Unknown:

I don't think VR events are ever going to like, fully replace

Unknown:

real events. Because now that I'm getting back out there and

Unknown:

talking to people, of course, like we met in a real event. So

Unknown:

sweet. It was so great. But I think like, introducing people

Unknown:

to that concept of, of esports events, and like, broadcasting

Unknown:

them through VR, like that's like the world I want to

Unknown:

imagine. I don't know, I know, the VR has been a hard sell. I

Unknown:

know, there's a lot of concepts here that I think are hard

Unknown:

sales, but like they're so fun to me. And then digital events.

Unknown:

I think that digital events, like drops and stuff, okay, I'm

Unknown:

trying to get here, I'm trying to get to this concept, you

Unknown:

know, when you're watching a game on Twitch, and like, they

Unknown:

give away free drops for your games. Like you're like, Oh,

Unknown:

this is how I unlock a new concept. And I think that's

Unknown:

really fun. And for a long time Dota has done that where like,

Unknown:

if you actually go to a real life event, you can like sign up

Unknown:

with your Steam account and like get custom special special items

Unknown:

for like being in person in that event. They're called the prison

Unknown:

witness trust treasures. And there's some of the rarest

Unknown:

treasures in Dota. And every time I've been to an event me

Unknown:

and my friends were like, how many did you get? Like, it's

Unknown:

it's all random, like random drops, like, did you get an H

Unknown:

like, I got like four, like, I got none, like you have all my

Unknown:

luck. And it's just like, it's really fun, like in person, but

Unknown:

also like digital, almost Metaverse s trading component

Unknown:

that like rings, the real life experience of the esports arena,

Unknown:

like back into the video game experience of the esports arena.

Unknown:

And it like keeps them connected. And it makes you feel

Unknown:

like, you're not just like watching the game. But you're

Unknown:

also playing the game, you know what I mean? And I would love to

Unknown:

see that continue to grow. I love to see that, like be a huge

Unknown:

part of making sure that everything like really

Unknown:

connecting your online world with the real life world and

Unknown:

having them like LinkedIn ways that don't suck. You know?

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah. What do you think the actual games will look

Lindsay Poss:

like to? You know, I'm wondering like, I don't know, I don't know

Lindsay Poss:

exactly when I'm thinking of it, you know, as someone who is very

Lindsay Poss:

well versed in a lot of different kinds of games. Yeah.

Lindsay Poss:

And in esports teams a competitive play. Like do you

Lindsay Poss:

think that there'll be a kind of new types of games or different

Lindsay Poss:

I'm wondering, like, what it's going to be like watching like a

Lindsay Poss:

bunch of people on stage, who are wearing VR headsets and

Lindsay Poss:

eating? And I think it's gonna be like, I think that's fine. I

Lindsay Poss:

don't want to sound flippant about it. But like, do you think

Lindsay Poss:

that we'll get like new types of games? Maybe I think I think

Unknown:

so. I think I've seen some really incredible I know, I

Unknown:

sort of your variables, and I stopped talking about it. But

Unknown:

like, I've seen some like, as this as the tech gets cheaper.

Unknown:

And like as it gets scaled down, you get these bigger

Unknown:

experiences, because you can suddenly put like four headsets

Unknown:

in a massive room and have those people that laser tag versus

Unknown:

when I bought a headset, it was massive on my face. It was

Unknown:

heavy, and it had a huge cord. So like I couldn't play laser

Unknown:

tag with anybody unless I wanted to trip over the airport. Now.

Unknown:

Like all that stuff is wireless, like the Oculus. The Oculus

Unknown:

quest totally blew my mind when I tried it on the first time and

Unknown:

the inside of tracking, because I was like you're never gonna

Unknown:

get tracking to make that won't make people sick unless you have

Unknown:

a base station. And then the question is like, you know, I

Unknown:

hired John Carmack, and we don't need no base stations anymore.

Unknown:

Like you got that inserter and it was just incredible. And so

Unknown:

suddenly, instead of like having to spend 40 minutes making sure

Unknown:

my base stations were aligned, making sure my my living room

Unknown:

was clean. Like I could just pop it on and play beats there. And

Unknown:

I think like with that level of tech getting better and better,

Unknown:

like yeah, maybe we'll have a big box arena I have like 40

Unknown:

people now for like 20. Like maybe 10 People like five, five,

Unknown:

like in a huge arena. And you can see them like, in real life

Unknown:

down there like playing laser tag, like there's their human

Unknown:

bodies. And then you look up the same way, like when you're

Unknown:

playing Dota. The screen is like up here. And like that's the

Unknown:

that's the in game view where everything was way cooler. But

Unknown:

you could also

Lindsay Poss:

be so cool. That'd be fun. I don't know. Maybe,

Lindsay Poss:

maybe,

Unknown:

maybe it's too late. It's too much. But like, I would

Unknown:

go to an event like that. Yeah,

Lindsay Poss:

it would be good. I mean, it will be. That's kind

Lindsay Poss:

of interesting to think about. Because as someone so I played

Lindsay Poss:

basketball in college, and several times on the show, but

Lindsay Poss:

I'm kind of imagining like, so what if you're playing Dota and

Lindsay Poss:

it was virtual, but you also then would have to have some

Lindsay Poss:

elements, like, like you said, If you build the whole kind of

Lindsay Poss:

maze, or whatever you wanna call it, um, where you have to run

Lindsay Poss:

and hide, physically, then I wonder if, like physical traits

Lindsay Poss:

will come back into play, you know, like you need to be. When

Lindsay Poss:

I started playing beat Sabre, I was like, sad and wimpy. And

Lindsay Poss:

then beat Sabre was so like, it got my heart rate up, it got my

Lindsay Poss:

arms moving. And like ever since

Unknown:

I started playing beat Sabre like, I start going to the

Unknown:

real dream, because I was like, I like feeling physical. I feel

Unknown:

like strong like it makes me turns out that when you

Unknown:

exercise, you actually feel better, believe it or not, I

Unknown:

know the doctors say that nobody actually be on to something. And

Unknown:

so I would love to see just like any sport, that's the sport like

Unknown:

where you have to, like aim and shoot your fake gun with your

Unknown:

controllers, but also, like you need to run back and forth. You

Unknown:

know, it's just like, it's just, I personally would love to play

Unknown:

that. And if I would love to play that, then that's like the

Unknown:

first step in turning into an esport. Yeah, right. Right. I

Lindsay Poss:

mean, yeah, like you said, it's like laser tag.

Lindsay Poss:

But I'll even like even, you're getting even more of like, the

Lindsay Poss:

graphic experience and just that whole, like, plot experience,

Lindsay Poss:

and you want laser tag. So Oh, that's such a cool idea. I

Lindsay Poss:

actually, this is a really interesting line of thinking,

Lindsay Poss:

because one of the things about video games is that they can be

Lindsay Poss:

a great equalizer for physical ability in a way that like, if

Lindsay Poss:

you are five, seven, as a male, you probably aren't going to

Lindsay Poss:

make it into the NBA. I have always felt that I don't know if

Lindsay Poss:

you feel this way too, though, I've always told that that's

Lindsay Poss:

kind of an oversimplification. Because the same way that you

Lindsay Poss:

have to be really tall and fast and strong play in the NBA, you

Lindsay Poss:

have to have extremely fast reaction time. You have to have

Lindsay Poss:

extremely quick decision making like you have to have all these

Lindsay Poss:

abilities that are somewhat innate and somewhat learned. But

Lindsay Poss:

it's not like, oh, video games are great equalizer and everyone

Lindsay Poss:

out can go out and be they were like anyone can be a pro. And

Lindsay Poss:

it's like, that's not true. Like there's, there's limitations in

Lindsay Poss:

the same way that like, professional sports have

Lindsay Poss:

limitations on physicality. So I've always found that argument

Lindsay Poss:

to be kind of annoying, actually. Anyone could be

Lindsay Poss:

probably okay.

Unknown:

Have you seen these guys? Shoot a God? Don't play

Unknown:

Rainbow Six. Unless the Rainbow Six Pillars of the Rainbow Six,

Unknown:

just like I I don't know, I'm not I'm not you have to

Lindsay Poss:

be good at certain things, like certain skills in

Lindsay Poss:

the same way that you have to be good at certain skills, like

Lindsay Poss:

anything or do anything. So yeah. But anyways, it's

Lindsay Poss:

fascinating to think about the combination of like real world,

Lindsay Poss:

like, Okay, you have to be really fast. But you also have

Lindsay Poss:

to be extremely accurate. And you have to have like, really

Lindsay Poss:

good planning. That would be so cool to watch. It's definitely

Lindsay Poss:

like a

Unknown:

different mixture, right? Where it's just like,

Unknown:

there's a set of skills you need to do to play video games.

Unknown:

Traditionally, there's a set of skills need to play sports

Unknown:

traditionally. And then like some of both of these things,

Unknown:

play like professional physical video games. Definitely. Yeah.

Unknown:

And so just like, I think, like, yeah, you still have some stuff

Unknown:

that maybe not everybody can do. But like, there's, it's a

Unknown:

mixture of my appeal or like, include people who would

Unknown:

otherwise be excluded. And like the two other categories, right,

Unknown:

where it's like, maybe I am really fast, and I can shoot a

Unknown:

video game gone really well. But like, I've never been, like,

Unknown:

tall enough, like you said to play basketball. Like maybe I

Unknown:

can play this step. And so it's just like, it gives more people

Unknown:

more options, right? Yeah,

Lindsay Poss:

so cool. Okay, well, that's really, really fun.

Lindsay Poss:

And I'm glad that we talked about that, because that was fun

Lindsay Poss:

for me. I want to pivot for kind of our last topic here and talk

Lindsay Poss:

about LGBTQI plus rights, because you are someone who uses

Lindsay Poss:

she they pronouns, and you call yourself woman adjacent, which I

Lindsay Poss:

think I think about that all the time. By the way, a lot, too. I

Lindsay Poss:

want you to Jason, but you've used your platform quite a bit

Lindsay Poss:

to discuss rights for folks in the community. And I want to ask

Lindsay Poss:

you kind of two sort of separate questions. But I first want to

Lindsay Poss:

know, what esports orgs can do to be more inclusive towards

Lindsay Poss:

queer identifying folks. And I also want to know, like, from

Lindsay Poss:

your perspective, as someone who works in South America, what

Lindsay Poss:

kind of those in Peru and what kind of those like cultural

Lindsay Poss:

differences are in your audiences? And what that looks

Lindsay Poss:

like? I'm just curious. Yeah. Well, I'll

Unknown:

start with Second question, because it's a little

Unknown:

bit of a shorter answer. In general, I was like nervous the

Unknown:

first time we like post some of our like, like Pride Month stuff

Unknown:

in our South American platforms, just because it's not a

Unknown:

community that I'm a huge part of, like, it's not one, like my

Unknown:

understanding of like LGBT rights pretty much focused on

Unknown:

English language, countries, like, you know, North America,

Unknown:

like Europe a little bit. So it's like, and I don't, I don't,

Unknown:

I don't claim to understand, you know, like, it's a very, you

Unknown:

know, Eurocentric experience, just because, like, that's where

Unknown:

I live. So I was just like, I don't know how this is gonna be

Unknown:

received, but like, we posted it on our on our, on our Facebook

Unknown:

platform. And our fans seem to be like, Yeah, this is great.

Unknown:

Like, I think everybody knows a queer person at the end of the

Unknown:

day, whether or not like, you know, their culture 100% except

Unknown:

for certain sets that are not like everybody, just like, I

Unknown:

think overall, in general, people are getting more

Unknown:

understanding. And so like, I just, I was really pleasantly

Unknown:

surprised to see like, not not a whole lot of vitriol, like,

Unknown:

nothing kind of scary. Like, I don't know why I was afraid, you

Unknown:

know, like I said, Everybody's people, but it's just like, it's

Unknown:

hard when you don't speak the language like this is going over

Unknown:

well, but no one over really, really well. And like, in

Unknown:

general, we, we try to keep our messaging at least from, from

Unknown:

our perspective, to the South American, pretty simple, just

Unknown:

like because, like, I can talk at length about like,

Unknown:

specifically like American and Canadian politics and laws and

Unknown:

rules around like, where people, but like, I just don't know what

Unknown:

that looks like in South America. So we'll keep it

Unknown:

simple. We'll let that will like tell them you know, like,

Lindsay Poss:

gay people cool.

Unknown:

And they're like, generally like, yeah, you're

Unknown:

right. And I just don't have the language to like, communicate

Unknown:

the intricacies. Because I don't speak I don't speak Spanish and,

Unknown:

you know, it's just like, it's, it's tough. But like, you know,

Unknown:

that they're like, Yeah, okay, cool, awesome. Like, viscose is

Unknown:

viscose is awesome. And there's like, a bunch of like, women who

Unknown:

are into Dota in South America, because it's such a cultural,

Unknown:

you know, cultural phenomenon. They're so like, they're, I

Unknown:

think being able to say, like, women and Queer People are

Unknown:

welcome with these coasts in Spanish, you know, as best we

Unknown:

can, resonates with them, too. Like, I know, like, the Peruvian

Unknown:

audience is mostly, you know, young men, very similar to what

Unknown:

people I think, imagine the esports industry like audiences.

Unknown:

But you know, we've worked with like, female go to influencers,

Unknown:

and we've worked with female go to artists, and so like, I know,

Unknown:

those people are there in South America, I don't want to stop

Unknown:

trying to reach them. Don't necessarily, you know what I

Unknown:

mean? And so like, I'm happy that when we, when we talked, we

Unknown:

talked to our our South American fans, they listen, and it's

Unknown:

really, really cool. Like, be that kind of cross cultural

Unknown:

blank there. At least your first The other question was just

Unknown:

like, What can esports orgs do to make sure that your people

Unknown:

what can esports orgs do to make people feel accepted? And I

Unknown:

think, I mean, I just want to make sure that everybody knows

Unknown:

that, like, there are so many queer people in these

Unknown:

communities already, I think about how many like, like trans

Unknown:

people I know who like grew up playing Smash Bros. Just like,

Unknown:

just like, I know that at every local, there's like, at least

Unknown:

one queer person, one trans person out there playing Smash

Unknown:

Bros that everybody knows, there was known for a really long

Unknown:

time. And like, at the end of the day, like, those people have

Unknown:

brought life and like culture and texture to our communities,

Unknown:

for the entirety of its of its entire existence. Like I love

Unknown:

now that GQ is like showing people's pronouns when they're

Unknown:

streaming and, or when they're doing runs, because you start to

Unknown:

see like, Oh, these people are these people are non binary,

Unknown:

like, appearance, people are trans. And like, this GQ event

Unknown:

is the big one of the biggest, like, gaming mainstream events

Unknown:

in the entire like world of gaming, like lots of normal

Unknown:

people watch it. And just like these people have been integral

Unknown:

to the speedrunning community, not necessarily the same as the

Unknown:

esports community, but very adjacent. And so like, they've

Unknown:

built this community, like, the reason why this event is so

Unknown:

successful is because all of these urine trans people have

Unknown:

been passionate about it for their entire lives. And it's

Unknown:

just like, we built this thing, you know what I mean? Like, I

Unknown:

don't want to say we built it, but like every esport event in

Unknown:

the world has has at least two or three trans people just in

Unknown:

the background, making sure that the the production is running

Unknown:

that the you know, that the the people get there on time, the

Unknown:

the food service is there, you know, we did this together with

Unknown:

allies, but like, we built this thing. And so recognizing

Unknown:

understanding that like the queer people are integral to

Unknown:

this success of this community is really important to me, I

Unknown:

think. And then just making sure you stand up and say, like, you

Unknown:

know, you belong here. Like really specifically directed

Unknown:

like, you belong here, like, we support you. Like, we're not

Unknown:

going to put up with any kind of hate because I do know, there's

Unknown:

just like esports was a boys club for a long time gaming was

Unknown:

a boys club for a really long time. There are still some kind

Unknown:

of sour attitudes out there. And being vocal and specific about

Unknown:

making sure that those attitudes are not allowed. Like, I think

Unknown:

it goes a long way. So that's me, that's what I think. And

Unknown:

that's what I try to do.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, everyone go go thank trans person in your

Lindsay Poss:

life today. And I mean, that gives him recognition for all

Lindsay Poss:

the hard work that that folks do in all kinds of industries is

Lindsay Poss:

one of I mean, one of my sort of, I guess, biggest pet Use

Lindsay Poss:

about under-representation across gaming in general, like

Lindsay Poss:

you are. Like, not only is this for moral reasons, but you are

Lindsay Poss:

hurting your own bottom line here. Like, these are people

Lindsay Poss:

that are willing to engage with you your platform and spend

Lindsay Poss:

money and time and effort with you and your game, like, just be

Lindsay Poss:

nice, be supportive, like, yeah,

Unknown:

I want to play out hard, but you know that 100 true

Unknown:

fans concept, like I think at least 50 of those fans are,

Unknown:

we're in some way or trans in some way. And it's just because

Unknown:

like, I've been able to connect with them and been like, I'm so

Unknown:

grateful that you're my fan. And they're like, we're so grateful

Unknown:

that you recognize that we're here. Like, that's really all it

Unknown:

takes, you know, just like just and like being able to be

Unknown:

openly, loudly myself, enough for a lot of people be like,

Unknown:

that's really cool. And just being specific about like, you

Unknown:

know, saying that, like, we're people, like deserve rights, you

Unknown:

know, trans rights are sort of under attack right now, like, do

Unknown:

what you can, being specific and targeted and being like, instead

Unknown:

of just like a little bit vague, and I think there's nothing

Unknown:

wrong with positive bag statements, but the more

Unknown:

specific and targeted and like, honest, you can be, I think that

Unknown:

really resonates with people. So I love that that's

Lindsay Poss:

a great place to kind of wrap up. So I'm gonna,

Lindsay Poss:

just really quick what we talked about. And we talked about the

Lindsay Poss:

inception of east coast and how you started in the esports

Lindsay Poss:

organization with the idea of creating a more fun and secure

Lindsay Poss:

environment simultaneously, trying to get away from that

Lindsay Poss:

very masculine, very stealing cobalt slash lawsuits. When it

Lindsay Poss:

comes to managerial roles, you have to get over imposter

Lindsay Poss:

syndrome, it may feel like managers are not doing much.

Lindsay Poss:

Figuring out the balance. Delegation versus kind of people

Lindsay Poss:

work time is an important part of being a manager, building up

Lindsay Poss:

partnerships and team camaraderie is also important.

Lindsay Poss:

You have to hire the right folks, you have to give them the

Lindsay Poss:

right tools this manager to do good job, you have to recognize

Lindsay Poss:

when that goes well. And as an organization, you mentioned that

Lindsay Poss:

you are focused on sustainable growth. You don't want to just

Lindsay Poss:

get funding and peter out, you wanted to have a fully fleshed

Lindsay Poss:

out strategy, we tried to look in places that were historically

Lindsay Poss:

underserved, while staying true to your interests and passions.

Lindsay Poss:

Just how these posts line up with a Dota team in Peru, which

Lindsay Poss:

is awesome, has to be an engagement, we had a lot of talk

Lindsay Poss:

about digital rewards, which is really cool. You can make real

Lindsay Poss:

world worlds that people real rewards that people can get and

Lindsay Poss:

use in game to show their support and fandom. Do special

Lindsay Poss:

drops for those and secret fan clubs. And like we talked about

Lindsay Poss:

with 100 true fans, you don't need a huge fan base. What you

Lindsay Poss:

need is a dedicated base of people that want to interact

Lindsay Poss:

with the organization and show off their fans. And it is

Lindsay Poss:

equally important to think recognize and make those people

Lindsay Poss:

feel seen within the two way street when it comes to fan

Lindsay Poss:

engagement. The Metaverse is more mainstream now. It's always

Lindsay Poss:

been around, but it's becoming more and more of a topic.

Lindsay Poss:

Digital Goods and digital trading has been around for a

Lindsay Poss:

long time. But getting people more comfortable with that is

Lindsay Poss:

very valuable, when it comes to gaming events in person is still

Lindsay Poss:

important. But there's ways to incorporate that with a digital

Lindsay Poss:

experience that kind of crosses over between the in person

Lindsay Poss:

world. We talked about VR tech and you are a VR tech

Lindsay Poss:

evangelist. How it has improved so much that there's huge

Lindsay Poss:

potential for VR to create really fun gaming experiences,

Lindsay Poss:

including a mix of physical and gaming help players running and

Lindsay Poss:

jumping in a virtual game. But it just sounds like the most fun

Lindsay Poss:

thing to watch ever. And VR can also help motivate people with

Lindsay Poss:

physical movement. Beat Sabre got paged into the gym, just for

Lindsay Poss:

all dudes out there. So use beat Sabre as motivation to not have

Lindsay Poss:

noodle arms. I have had noodle arms for a long time. It's fine.

Lindsay Poss:

If you also like having noodle arms. That's cool, too. It's the

Lindsay Poss:

south end and we actually ended the discussion on LGBTQI rights.

Lindsay Poss:

These trans movies and South America reception of Pride Month

Lindsay Poss:

and other support for easy verbalization has been really

Lindsay Poss:

positive so far, which is cool. It comes to esports or is at

Lindsay Poss:

large. Having simple sharing mechanisms like putting pronouns

Lindsay Poss:

on events can really make queer trans communities feel seen,

Lindsay Poss:

especially since grassroots communities are integral to the

Lindsay Poss:

success of a lot of these events. I think that's a great

Lindsay Poss:

way to end on the last section that I like to do and to do this

Lindsay Poss:

with everyone who comes on the show because it's a really fun

Lindsay Poss:

chance to kind of look back at your career. Think about what

Lindsay Poss:

you've done. Things that I like to ask is what is one thing you

Lindsay Poss:

would like to tell your younger self about getting into the

Lindsay Poss:

gaming industry and being successful?

Unknown:

First of all, I just want to say you made me sound so

Unknown:

eloquent that wrap up Wow.

Lindsay Poss:

I was like really

Unknown:

one thing I think I would tell myself when I was

Unknown:

young before I did that silly little art degree that I

Unknown:

graduated with I went to university for like a year and a

Unknown:

half. It was stressful and it wasn't for me and I dropped out

Unknown:

and there was like a period of time there where I was just like

Unknown:

did I make a mistake like like waste my money going to

Unknown:

university just to drop out like am I am I a failure? And I think

Unknown:

it's it's a thing that a lot Have like young people aged 18

Unknown:

who go to university for the first time, there's like, maybe

Unknown:

this isn't what I want. It's like the scary moment. And I was

Unknown:

just like, worried that I've made a mistake. And I if I could

Unknown:

go back to that 18 year old kid who would just drop out of

Unknown:

university and be like, it's, it's fine, like, you're gonna be

Unknown:

okay. That's what I would say. Like, it seems silly to for my

Unknown:

advice to be, it's okay that you dropped out of university. But

Unknown:

like, everybody's path is different. And if you're

Unknown:

passionate, and if you're willing to, like, roll with the

Unknown:

punches, like you could find a path that makes sense for you.

Unknown:

And it doesn't have to be the path that like you thought it

Unknown:

was. If you're willing to, you know, except that life is crazy

Unknown:

sometimes and just like find, find your own, your own your own

Unknown:

adventure, right. And I guess it sounds super cheesy like that.

Unknown:

But that's my advice, like, it's okay, that you dropped out of

Unknown:

university, you can always go back, you can always go

Unknown:

somewhere else, you can always just do something else. Like, it

Unknown:

seems sometimes when you're stuck in one place that that

Unknown:

that moment stretches out forever. And you're like, I'm

Unknown:

always going to be stuck right here. I'm always going to feel

Unknown:

exactly the way I feel, you know, everyone's work a dead end

Unknown:

job, where it's just like, is it just going to be this every day

Unknown:

for the rest of my life. And the good thing about life is that it

Unknown:

never will be, it's always changing, for better or for

Unknown:

worse, but like, you don't have to be afraid of the monotony.

Unknown:

It's not going to last, before you know it, you'll be in some

Unknown:

crazy experience that maybe it sucks, but it's different. And

Unknown:

you can use that to grow and move forward. And it's all about

Unknown:

moving forward. Right?

Lindsay Poss:

It's not too esoteric. I like that. Because

Lindsay Poss:

I'm personal at 18. I had nothing figured out and anyone

Lindsay Poss:

who does I'm like so impressed. But I feel like we just kind of

Lindsay Poss:

drop 18 year olds off. Now you're a real person, like, no,

Lindsay Poss:

no, really. Yeah, exactly. So I can totally sympathize with

Lindsay Poss:

that. And because I've had a lot of people on the show where I've

Lindsay Poss:

asked her, like more non traditional, I guess, the

Lindsay Poss:

traditional path is definitely college job after high school.

Lindsay Poss:

So I've been I've had a lot of people on who I've kind of asked

Lindsay Poss:

about non traditional, right, like, what certifications can

Lindsay Poss:

you get? Where can you start an entry level job? I really

Lindsay Poss:

appreciate following that protocol. And I think it's

Lindsay Poss:

really important. Because not everyone's meant for school.

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, yeah, like school

Unknown:

is really cool. I would love to go back. If I had time.

Unknown:

Now, I would love to get a degree in something. Because

Unknown:

like, the pressure is off now that I'm like, almost 30 It's

Unknown:

like, Oh, I could just go get a degree in like, you know,

Unknown:

whatever. Just like film studies. Like it might be a

Unknown:

little bit expensive. But I could do it like one class. It'd

Unknown:

be fun. Like I would if I had the time, I would love to do it.

Unknown:

But like when you're young, it just like feels like it's

Unknown:

everything. Right? Yeah. And so like, if you're having fun if

Unknown:

you're doing well in school, like stay in school, don't don't

Unknown:

listen to me and drop out. But like if you're like struggling

Unknown:

and you're like, I think I want to drop out like, that's it.

Unknown:

That might be the right choice for you. Maybe it's not, I don't

Unknown:

know you but like, I don't want anybody to feel like it's like a

Unknown:

double down, right. Dropping out kind of sucks. Because

Unknown:

emotionally there's a whole bunch of other stuff. Like don't

Unknown:

feel bad about feeling bad. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,

Unknown:

hold down, just like accept what you're doing and move forward.

Unknown:

And we can all move forward.

Lindsay Poss:

Right? Ooh, I like that. Yeah, don't double down is

Lindsay Poss:

good. Ah, thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find

Lindsay Poss:

you follow you if you want to be found and followed? Where can

Lindsay Poss:

they learn about East Coast, although

Unknown:

my handle on everything is the base 16. That's th e VAs

Unknown:

e one, six. It's a joke, like hexadecimal is a base 16 number

Unknown:

system. I'm a web code or under graphic designer, so you know,

Unknown:

it's fun. So I'm the basic seen on Twitter, on Instagram and on

Unknown:

Tik Tok. I don't put something up very often, but I have a

Unknown:

couple of banners. And then these coasters, these posts. You

Unknown:

can go to ww.viscose.gg for website and then we're just post

Unknown:

on Twitter. We mentioned a NAB that handle this beast post. I

Unknown:

think we're viscose GG, all one word on Instagram tick tock in

Unknown:

most other places, because somebody else will be posted on

Unknown:

those other platforms. But you know, please check me out.

Unknown:

Please check out these posts. Follow all of our brilliant

Unknown:

creators. And thank you so much Lindsay for having me on. This

Unknown:

has been so great.

Lindsay Poss:

So fun. For all the listeners out there. Be sure

Lindsay Poss:

to leave the five star ratings and reviews. Check out other

Lindsay Poss:

holodeck media podcasts including meta business and

Lindsay Poss:

visit esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn at

Lindsay Poss:

Lindsey pass and you can catch me Wednesday afternoons on the

Lindsay Poss:

business of esports live after show. We will see you next week.

Lindsay Poss:

Thanks.

Unknown:

Thanks for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to

Unknown:

subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your podcasts

Unknown:

leave a five star review and tell your friends family and

Unknown:

colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to follow meta TV on

Unknown:

all socials to get more of the best Metaverse content anywhere.

Unknown:

Tune in every week for another episode of meadow woman

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About the Podcast

META Woman
Weekly metaverse content - for women, by women
Meta Woman will focus on addressing the issues, opportunities, and challenges facing women in the development of the Metaverse. Top female executives and business people operating within the gaming and crypto industries bring a wide range of perspectives through regular guest appearances.