Episode 42

full
Published on:

27th Sep 2022

42. Problem Curation

Today's episode features Maya McClendon, the Founder of Timeout. Timeout is an app designed to specifically aid athletes and other high pressure performers with tools to aid in bettering mental health. While Timeout is focusing first on athletes, Maya believes expansion into all kinds of competitive areas is going to be critical to Timeout's success. We talk about how to build a business, what it's like to get funding, and the intersection between tech and mental health. Maya teaches me about problem curation: figuring out what the issues actually are is the way to actually solve problems.

Transcript
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Welcome to the meadow woman podcast. We address the

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issues, opportunities and challenges facing women in the

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development of the metaverse the biggest revolution since the

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internet itself. Every week we bring you conversations with top

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female talent and business executives operating in the

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gaming and crypto industries. Here's your host Lindsey, the

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boss POS, the meta woman podcast starts now. Hello, and welcome

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to the meta woman podcast part of the holodeck media Podcast

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Network. I'm your host, Lindsay the boss pass and from struggle

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to success. We're covering it all. To our returning listeners.

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Thank you so much for supporting the show week after week

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listening to my voice. And for all the new listeners. Welcome.

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I hope you enjoy I hope you'll continue listening to me. I'm so

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excited to introduce today's guests because when we first met

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and spoke there was just such a joyous energy radiating from

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her. We have a lot in common as former college athletes. And so

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I definitely might be a little biased when I when I talk about

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the energy coming from her. But I truly believe she's just a

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wonderful and very light filled person I have on today, Maya

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McClendon, she's the founder of Timeout. Timeout is an app

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designed to specifically aid athletes and other high pressure

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performers, with tools to aid in bettering their mental health. I

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know she started with traditional athletics and is

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looking to move into esports athletes. And I think we all

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know what a competitive environment that is. So we'll

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definitely talk about that. But Maya, welcome to the show.

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Please introduce yourself, give the audience a bit of your

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backstory fill in anything that I might have missed? Absolutely.

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Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, I really

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look up to you and what you're doing in the space. I've

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listened to a couple of of the past episodes and just I'm so

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proud of the conversations that are going on. But yeah, you

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know, I, you kind of mentioned, I'm a former student athlete, I

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come from a family of athletes. My sister is a professional

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volleyball player, my dad played a little pro basketball and I

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have two younger brothers who are fantastic. I love to

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compete, I probably have played seven different sports since the

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age of two, I was in ballet, I played soccer, I, you know,

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played lacrosse in high school, just you know, loved to really

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enjoy my my art form of expressing myself through play,

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which ultimately led me to get a scholarship at the University of

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Louisville. And then transfer to Arizona State. I say I am an

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athlete, but I'm also a huge nerd.

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pre med psych, absolutely loved research and just diving into

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the minds and bodies of people just to really, you know, harp

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on one of my, my self proclaimed skills of, of just deep,

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unapologetic empathy, trying to understand how to heal those

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around me and really, you know, create a safe space for people

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to express themselves. So started off with the need to be

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a doctor, right that this deep urge to be a doctor after my

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post collegiate career. And that transformed after a tragedy into

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what I'm doing now, which you know, was the death of a

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teammate. And I'm sure we'll go deeper into that. But yeah,

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that's that's a little bit of a background about about me. With

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that in mind, let's get into and you've already mentioned this a

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little bit, but why you create a timeout and how it actually

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works. Absolutely. So like I said, I was pre med Psych.

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That's what I got my degree in and at the University of

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Louisville. What led me to transfer was a personal mental

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health crisis that I really hid from a lot of people. I was

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starter, I was a captain and you know, an upperclassman and just

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really navigated that space on my own. And when I transferred,

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changing my major to psychology from biology, really opened my

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eyes to the power of understanding basics, the basics

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of psychology, bio psychosocial study, and it really helped me

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emerge out of that dark place. But you know, a year later, as I

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was sending for the MCAT, you know, my friend taking her life

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just made me realize that I was lucky to have had that

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education. And I was thinking, you know, what would the sports

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world look like if we had just the fundamentals, right? If we

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just sort of calling ourselves weak or crazy, we could think,

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oh, you know, I just have this background or element or risk

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factor that I can't overcome, just like, you know, weak ankles

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or weak means or other genetic factors. I really couldn't move

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forward with med school. I was stuck talking to other friends

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who had competed and are still professional athletes. And I

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said, you know, I wish I just had an app. Like, I just wish I

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had something in my hand, that I could pull up any time and no

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one would know. And it was just something that I could always go

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back to on my own time. And I started drawing the wireframes

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downloaded every single mental health app that was out there in

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2017 and came up with the name Timeout.

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Timeout, take a timeout for mental health. And what

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originally started off as just a mental health app for athletes

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has transformed into something bigger today, those original

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features that were made

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had to overcome the barriers of help seeking and reduce stigma

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and suicide risk factors. You know, we understood that there's

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a whole sports athletic ecosystem. And it's not just

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athletes in it, it's the licensed providers, it's the

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coaches. So we also developed another application for licensed

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providers. And those two applications communicate to each

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other in real time, while sending data to a dashboard that

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only the timeout team can access. So that is a little bit

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about, you know, what timeout is, right now we're focused on

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college athletics. But like you said, you know, we're really

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expanding our network, getting into the in person components of

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this holistic approach to mental health. And I'd love to talk to

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you, just because this is a podcast that definitely focuses

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a bit on gaming. But I would love to talk to you how you're

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planning to expand into other high pressure environments in

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general. And if you thought about working with esports,

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athletes, or kind of anything that you might have learned from

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seeing different competitive environments like esports,

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compared to traditional sports environments, I guess, like how

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are you planning on using your knowledge and expertise in newer

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environments, particularly ones that might be more on the tech

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video game kind of side of things, in terms of expanding

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into other environments, there are two different approaches

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that we've been planning and really working on the first

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component is with our content, original content. And this is

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something that we're working on, we're beta testing, and hasn't

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been as much in the public, essentially, on the athlete app

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side, the first thing yet you would do is take a really brief

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survey and have your background information to understand what

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type of athletes that you are, including your sport, whether

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you're, you know, an esports, or if you know, you're in the

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different fields. And that survey really sparks the

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algorithm for the recommended resources, right? We're taking a

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bunch of data that exists already. And in terms of

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personality type risk factors, and we're recommending an array

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of different tools. And one of those is content that we're

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creating. And we're starting with a pathway or playbook for

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specific instances, specific mental health barriers, like

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depression, anxiety, eating disorders. And those are the

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tools that are being recommended to each individual. So as we've

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done our research, so far, different sports typically

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experience different rates of different mental health crises.

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So for example, track athletes have high rates of eating

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disorders. And when you look at your gaming, those individuals

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have high rates of suicide and depression, right because of

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certain factors. So depending on what they're inputting in that

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first triage process, we're recommending pathways for them.

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And that really includes you know, that content, as well as

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those in person resources. And that leads to the second thing,

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you know, that one of the pillars at timeout is our

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timeout community where we're talking to high performing

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individuals from all different fields who want to represent our

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brand, and come together and speak about their mental health

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journeys and finding specific communities. And I guess, elite

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faces spokespeople in their field to say, hey, this was my

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journey, you know, this is something recommended in our

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timeout community, it kind of mirrors the process of group

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therapy without calling it group therapy, where you can find your

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community, and then talk about those those common mental health

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barriers together, but it is recommended to you to get you to

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the right place. So part of this, I'm going to circle back

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to something that I've heard you mentioned a couple times now,

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but clinical research has seems like a huge part of the

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strategy. And I am I'm a big research junkie, I actually also

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switched out of biology into a major called decision science,

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which was very much about neurology, and decision making

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and psychology kind of all mixed up with stats. So decision trees

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and decision pathways are something I'm super familiar

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with. I love it. And so what it sounded like to me is you're

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taking your time kind of building up something where

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people can have a very individualized experience based

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on the content that you're actually putting on the

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platform. I'm very familiar with the like, move fast and break

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things in tech. This seems like a very different approach.

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That's like very do the research first and kind of move forward

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in that. How has that been kind of from the tech startup angle

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building a tech company with this sort of really heavy

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clinical research background? Have you found that partnerships

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collaborations are willing to kind of jump on for the long

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haul? And they see the long term vision? Are you finding it sort

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of difficult to explain, hey, we're taking our time and doing

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the clinical research part, like what has it been like being in

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kind of this tech startup mental health overlap Venn diagram

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world, but doing it in a way that's very opposite of how tech

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companies are kind of typically grown? Yeah, yeah, that's a fair

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antastic question and something that we really talked a lot

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about as a team. At the beginning of this right, we

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realized, you know, this is a huge idea coming from so much so

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much research, it's going to take a while to create something

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that's beautiful. And on top of that, this isn't like another

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DoorDash. Right? This is Mental Health, where it lives can be at

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risk. So talking about this holistic strategy, we really

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broke up the services that we can offer that will lead into a

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phased approach to our technology and our research. One

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of the services we offer, which we've launched and are working

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on with one university is called our program evaluations, I

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watched a lot of master classes, I love that platform, and I

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can't remember his name, but he talks about sales, right? When

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you go to a customer or patient or client, the first step isn't

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problem solving. It's problem curation, asking the right

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questions coming from a third party, that's non bias to

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understand where our people are starting the system holistically

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is the first step. While we're developing the technology, this

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research approach, we are working on a year long research

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tread study with version one and getting an idea about version

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two, right? That takes time, that takes energy that takes

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resources, and it's in a way is this fast, iterative approach,

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but not in terms of launching to the public. So while we're

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working on the services that we can offer, building the

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community, getting feedback on the ground, we're also

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developing the technology in the background, and building those

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relationships with those universities. So you know, we're

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going to be testing with Arizona State, that's a huge university

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for an entire year, you know, we get an idea of, you know, what

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that looks like in a controlled environment. So that when we do

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release certain features, it kind of is that, you know,

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testing outside of the controlled environment, you

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know, it will take a while. And because this is so new, you

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know, we're willing to take that time, when you talk about those

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partnerships, they understand the investment, right, they

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understand that what they're doing right now isn't working.

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And it's going to take, you know, really investing time and

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energy and finding out what works in those environments, and

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taking a risk on the companies that, you know, sincerely have

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their best interests in mind. And I think that's, you know,

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where they're coming from is some things can happen

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immediately, like the services and then some things we'll have

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to take our time with. This is so interesting from the

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university perspective, because I don't typically have people

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who run startups who are going kind of this route, when it

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comes to funding and partnerships, that tends to be a

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lot of kind of VC investments and, and more of that fast

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moving energy and environment. And it's very refreshing to have

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someone who is still moving fast, but also balancing that

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with moving with intention and taking the time to properly

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research. So I think it's, it's kind of a good balance, because

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I don't want to discount the fact that you're also at the

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same time building and launching and testing an app. But that

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you're able to kind of counterbalance that with doing

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loads of clinical research to try to improve the product as

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it's coming out. Absolutely. When it comes to that

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development process, definitely parallels between what you're

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doing at timeout. And in game development. One of those big

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parallels is in the platform you chose and you've already

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mentioned that you wanted something on the phone, just to

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be able to constantly have it by to to pull it up in private when

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you have a moment to do so. And obviously, the time we spend on

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our phones, whether it's mobile gaming, whether it's social

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media, it's just increasing and increasing, we all have this

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thing called screen time. Now, two questions. The first, why

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did you choose the mobile platform? Obviously,

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accessibility is one of the huge reasons. But like I said, as we

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balance that with, we need less screen time. How are you

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thinking about using that mobile platform? And then the second

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is, tell me about the benefits that kind of keep you on mobile.

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So as you move forward and more research, what are you seeing

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about using a phone app that has been encouraging and exciting?

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We were thinking at the beginning of this, why not a web

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based platform, you know, what, what is the best window to

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capture our audience and make sure that, you know, we're

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creating an experience that is not just you know, clinically

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helpful, but also visually stimulating and brings that

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level of comfort, right? And just thinking about the younger

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generations looking to your phone for resources is an

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instinct, right? That instinct is okay, like, I can grab my

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phone and I so much comes up. But the key is finding something

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that's trustworthy and reliable. When you look at you know, React

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Native and iOS apps. It allows us to do a ton on the cyber

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cybersecurity side and within our own control, right. I know

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you mentioned screentime. And that was actually one of my

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first I guess, barriers that I had to overcome, especially when

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pitching to schools and investors and grants. However,

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our approach and what we're encouraging

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Athletes and high performers to do is to use the app to overcome

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the barriers so that they can get in person, you can't have a

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mental health app where there's no human element, I truly

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believe that just from the nature of, of psychology, right,

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especially with CBT, DBT, IPT, those deeper levels of

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intervention, they need to happen with a professional where

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there's human interaction. And there was a ton of research over

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COVID, where providers were talking about the benefits of

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teletherapy. But also how certain social cues you just

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can't pick up like, even right now you can't see my hands, if

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my legs were shaking, you wouldn't be able to see those,

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those details. So the whole purpose of the application is to

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say, Hey, we've done this survey this this program evaluation

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with a report to say, for some reason you have providers, you

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have programs, but but the athletes aren't seeing the

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providers in person, why not? Is it the scheduling process? Is it

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the communication process? Is it the in person process, like what

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elements are providing or are prohibiting them from help

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seeking and what are contributing to suicidal risk

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factors. And ultimately, after they go through that journey,

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they will have the education of what to do next. So maybe I do

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join group therapy that's offered at my school, or maybe I

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do see this nutritionist that has their office at this

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location, or maybe I find someone else in a different

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network. So I think, you know, those are the benefits, it opens

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the door for, you know, in person interactions by

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overcoming those things that are digital or not digital that are

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difficult to get through right now. So it sounds like the

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approach here is kind of twofold. And I would I just want

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to make sure I'm getting this right. So the first is to have

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something that's kind of an immediate, not necessarily for

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when you're in crisis, but what for when you're in a down

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moment. And you need something to immediately flick through to

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help to maybe open up a tool or learn a tool or refresh yourself

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on a tool that helps you in that moment kind of recover and be

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able to move on in moments that, again, are not crisis moments.

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And then the second part of it is learning your habits,

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patterns and behaviors and connecting you to the

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specialists that can actually help in the long term and

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consistently improve or help address with the root causes of

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those habits and behaviors. Is that accurate? Yeah. Yeah. And

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again, that is that's a piece of it, for sure. And when we talk

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about the athletes app, at least, we're calling ourselves a

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digital health health platform, we're not teletherapy, right,

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that's not our goal, our goal is to take a system and in be a

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medical device, quote, unquote, medical device, into the system

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itself. And again, this is very early stages on what we've

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developed up to date, and we have version three in our minds

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that we still want to test. So, you know, if we look at the

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range of risks from that first survey, you know, green, yellow,

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orange and red, depending on those risk factors, where do we

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place people? And how do we communicate that within you

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know, their system? So if you are, you know, green, you know,

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you have passed the checklist, and it's a way to check in to

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see how you can become more mentally resilient. And that's

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where we're really trying to get people there are no suicide risk

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factors, people have been on a great trajectory, how can they

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continue to relish in that maintenance phase, and then you

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get to yellow where, you know, there are some precursors, so

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what elements on the application can help you are specialized for

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you to be able to build up those tools to be able to help

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yourself in those moments. And then when you get into orange

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and red, that's when Hey, you may need to be referred to a

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licensed provider application. Or you can hit the timeout

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button, which is crisis intervention, it's a range of

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different resources in the touch of a button where you don't have

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to guess for yourself, you kind of have an indication of, okay,

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you may need to be led in one direction versus the other. I

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like that crisis intervention is also a priority. One of the

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biggest issues with surveys is that people tend to not

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necessarily be honest with themselves and self

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identification is really, really tough. So we're talking about

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the these buckets and kind of different risk factors and

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different risk levels. And I know that this isn't as a

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simplistic process as it sounds. So I don't want people to get

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the idea that you know, it's five questions in your bucket

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and right away like this is not a Buzzfeed quiz. There's,

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there's clinical research behind it when you're actually getting

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put into these buckets. And I know that that's going to be an

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ever evolving process. But how do you contend with the known

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fact that people tend to not self select yourself identify on

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surveys with with patterns that they actually have? You know,

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one thing is the the inspiration for the survey is actually

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inspired by the International Olympic Committee. These are

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tools that are being used at the highest level already, and we're

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taking it and we're proud

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serving it but also adding other safety nets and other validity

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skills because no one wants to take a 50 question survey on an

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app that has all those validity skills built in. Right? Unless

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it's telling me like how my horoscope relates to like,

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what's happening when Mercury Mercury's in retrograde, and

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like what friends charactering

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Exactly which Harry Potter house I'm in

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the importance.

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Right, all of the above?

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There are a couple of ways we're looking at this. And we're

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actually testing this right now for risk analysis, right?

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Because that's really the biggest question. First is, it's

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not that I want to admit, we can't help everybody. But if we

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look at what's being done right now, at least for me, I never

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took a mental health survey the entire time I was at either

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universities, right? It's gotten better. But compared to what we

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have now, even asking the questions is better than where

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we're starting. So we realize we're not going to get the 100%

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truth out of people. It's not a lie detector test, it's really

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there for them, when they want to get the benefits out of it.

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We can't, you know, force them to be honest, all the time. And

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we write that in our studies, right? You know, these are

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qualitative, you know, surveys where we're not going to really

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know the truth no matter what. But over time, and the more data

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we do get, you know, the more that we can kind of wrap things

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up and make better recommendations. The second

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thing is making sure that when every user logs in, there is a

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process on privacy and data sharing, right, we have a

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message that says, you know, this is not going to be shared

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with anyone, you don't want to see this, this is for you, this

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is 100% for you to get the value, and understanding how you

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can be more mentally resilient, and more mentally, quote

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unquote, tough saying that on the front end, and making them

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aware of like, okay, we're going to use your input for research,

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and you know, that it's going to be for research, and this is

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going to be for you. So that's really where we are right now,

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as we continue to grow and, you know, obtain more participants

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and users will get an idea of how to better ask these

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questions in how to encourage them to open up about, you know,

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how they're really feeling. But there's so much work to do in

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general with surveys and assessments, right? Like, this

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could happen in a doctor's office, it does happen in

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doctor's offices, but that's why we've built in other safety nets

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and other ways to get to that piece of the algorithm, you

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know, that they really need to end up in, I actually recently

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read a paper on, I wish I could remember the new form of survey,

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but it was essentially, to try and to get people more more

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honest, on political surveys, questions were framed in a much

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different way. Like anyone who knows a Likert scale out there,

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the ones that are five, not applicable, fully applicable

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scale. So anyways, yeah, you're totally right. That's, you're

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totally speaking my language, my undergrad language here. So this

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body of knowledge, I clearly you have this great body of

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knowledge on psychology and psychological research that is

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going into this app, which is awesome. But I want to also, and

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we talked about this a little bit, but I want to talk about

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the technical side, because also, at the end of the day,

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you're thinking about coding an app for felons,

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which is again, not necessarily an easy feat very different than

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the research portion. But what has surprised you about building

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up the tech side of this in terms of like, actually

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physically building the app? Please feel free to correct me

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if I'm wrong, I'm assuming you work with someone who codes it.

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If you also code it yourself, I'll be supremely floored. Just

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because

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just because that is again, as someone who has a psych

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background was never necessarily my jam. But you could be a woman

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who does both and I just wouldn't know. But what has that

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technical development process been like for you? Especially

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since we seem to be like minded on this, like psychological very

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research heavy kind of clinical side? Yeah, absolutely. I do not

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code. I wish I did. I have I downloaded some of the apps like

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for like, getting your own academy?

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Yeah, exactly. I'm on it. I haven't had I opened in a while.

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It's been a bit. Yeah, I'm still a millennial. So I was coding in

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for my space.

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Right. Like, where?

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But yeah, you know, to be so transparent, the app development

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piece has been really, really difficult. I do have a business

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partner who you know, was part of the original team of hinge

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and understood at least the baseline of what it looks like

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and what you know, I was able to really utilize his services for

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the advice but in terms of assembling the team, putting

Unknown:

everyone together, taking you know, my original frames and

Unknown:

boiling it down into it and acceptance criteria.

Unknown:

Yeah, understanding which features to start out with what

Unknown:

to build from scratch, what to kind of take off the shelf,

Unknown:

those are a lot of things to consider and questions to ask.

Unknown:

And the app development process has taken a little bit longer

Unknown:

than anticipated, which it always does, right, you know,

Unknown:

there are unexpected bugs and things will happen. And that's

Unknown:

to be expected. In general, I would say the value that even

Unknown:

just a beta brings, when you have the courage to take it to

Unknown:

your customers and run focus groups is so valuable, the

Unknown:

feedback that we're getting, that's usable. So, you know,

Unknown:

it's been a journey for me to manage the expectation in my

Unknown:

mind of what it should look like at this stage. And I think

Unknown:

that's, that's part of the journey, which is understanding

Unknown:

where to go quickly, and where to kind of take your time, one

Unknown:

of our competitive advantages, and I'm kind of getting off the

Unknown:

topic of the actual tech itself, you know, being quote, unquote,

Unknown:

first to market with, you know, this has never been done in this

Unknown:

app development takes a while, we're able to see other ideas

Unknown:

emerge and kind of see where they falter and see how the, you

Unknown:

know, the public responds to certain things. And we've

Unknown:

actually pivoted already in our development based off of, you

Unknown:

know, what people have said about cerebral or, you know,

Unknown:

talkspace, or, or, you know, similar ideas and an

Unknown:

understanding, okay, you know, in this next builds, where do we

Unknown:

want to expand? Where do we want to pivot? And what kind of

Unknown:

feedback are we getting, in terms of the actual UI UX, it's

Unknown:

hard, I will say, it's hard. And it takes a while. And we have

Unknown:

had a lot of supporters. But I think in general, if you want to

Unknown:

develop to apps and an admin dashboard, you may have to

Unknown:

fundraise with VC in order for it to move at the pace that

Unknown:

you'd like. But that's if you prioritize pace over process

Unknown:

that makes perfect sense. That actually leads me into kind of a

Unknown:

different question. Well, it leads me to two different

Unknown:

questions. But I want to start with the question about

Unknown:

competition and what else is out there? Because there is,

Unknown:

obviously a bunch of mental health apps, yours that's

Unknown:

already differentiating itself, because it's for a niche

Unknown:

audience. But what else is something special that you are

Unknown:

finding from your feedback from your users that is really

Unknown:

working about timeout? Yeah, absolutely. So like you said,

Unknown:

there are a ton of mental health apps out there, there are

Unknown:

meditation apps, there are teletherapy apps there, you

Unknown:

know, our sports psychology applications that are out there,

Unknown:

and emerging every day, it feels like but looking at timeout as a

Unknown:

process in a in a platform that's bigger than just the

Unknown:

application, I think is really important and how we present

Unknown:

ourselves and how we differentiate within the market,

Unknown:

which is, we're not just launching a public app out there

Unknown:

and saying, Here you go, where the user logs in, and goes

Unknown:

through one journey, and then it's up to them to decide when

Unknown:

they want to, you know, touch back in and go through, you

Unknown:

know, a process, it's really self guided. And I think that

Unknown:

fundamentally, is the issue with mental health and in Psych

Unknown:

Services already, which is how does the general public without

Unknown:

any previous knowledge, know what to do? What to look up when

Unknown:

to start and where to start? Right? Like, it's so hard unless

Unknown:

you, you know, change your major to psychology, or, you know,

Unknown:

even if you follow the Tiktok pages, like how do you know if

Unknown:

that's right for you, because it's such a subjective field. So

Unknown:

the holistic approach of timeout is the differentiator, it's the

Unknown:

fact that, you know, we're Yes, niche made for athletes, by

Unknown:

athletes, we understand from the higher performer perspective of

Unknown:

how we want this to be framed, because we're not a clinical

Unknown:

tele psych application, we have some liberty to have fun with

Unknown:

some of the language, right, where we can say, you know,

Unknown:

we're not just, you know, put the dark filter on and throw a

Unknown:

bunch of terms at you. And this is what depression is, it's very

Unknown:

much like, hey, like, have you ever been in a situation where,

Unknown:

you know, you're in preseason, and you have nothing left in

Unknown:

your tank, and everyone's crying and crying and complaining? You

Unknown:

know, and using sports metaphors, you know, like, I'm

Unknown:

in that as we speak, actually, thank you for bringing that.

Unknown:

Take is on e and n and using those types of sports metaphors,

Unknown:

and not to be cliche, because that's the name of my other

Unknown:

company. But that is how we can really put the athlete in the

Unknown:

center of the model, and make sure that we're giving them this

Unknown:

circular experience, and not just for the athletes, but for

Unknown:

the entire sports programs. And when I say you know, we're the

Unknown:

quote, unquote, medical device for athletic ecosystems. That's

Unknown:

what I mean, right? It's plugging into the whole system.

Unknown:

It's not just there you go. We've launched this good luck.

Unknown:

That makes sense. Yeah. And I think having that audience in

Unknown:

mind is so important. I want to touch on something else. You

Unknown:

mentioned in that previous answer.

Unknown:

as well about funding and investment, I would love to know

Unknown:

because I know that you've done a lot with education. And part

Unknown:

of this would being sports programs, obviously, things like

Unknown:

the NCAA is huge, professional sports organizations, amateur

Unknown:

sports organizations, one day esports organizations as well.

Unknown:

We're on our way.

Unknown:

But what has your funding strategy been like you don't

Unknown:

have to go, you can go into deep, as detailed as much detail

Unknown:

as you want. But I asked mostly because obviously, we know what

Unknown:

the funding is world is like for women and women of color, it's

Unknown:

even tougher. I have read those statistics on the show a bunch

Unknown:

of times. But what has your experience been? Like? Have you

Unknown:

found I'm making a assumption here, but I'm assuming that

Unknown:

you've gone to both kind of VC and investment firms and then

Unknown:

also gotten the education the university side? What has been

Unknown:

the difference in those two? Are you finding that people are

Unknown:

receptive in in both lanes? Are you finding it difficult to

Unknown:

overcome barriers in either of the lanes? Like, what what has

Unknown:

that been? Like? Yeah, well, I really appreciate this question.

Unknown:

Because it's kind of one of those topics where unless you go

Unknown:

deep into it, people just kind of assume that it's like been

Unknown:

easy. You know, I don't know, those are the conversations I've

Unknown:

had, where people like,

Unknown:

oh, god

Unknown:

the communities I'm talking to, well, the people who aren't in

Unknown:

it, right. The other other people who are entrepreneur,

Unknown:

entrepreneurs just see the progress and say, Oh, she just

Unknown:

came up with the money somehow. And, you know, I've even heard

Unknown:

the opposite, which some people have said, this is the best time

Unknown:

to be a black female founder, because so much money is being

Unknown:

given away. And I love to get into that conversation, because

Unknown:

we really started off by going after private

Unknown:

grants, and seeing Okay, that's what everyone was telling me.

Unknown:

So, you know, what incubators? Could I get into that we were

Unknown:

non dilutive? And, you know, what are these fantastic grants

Unknown:

that are out and I got to a couple meetings and found a

Unknown:

couple of these websites and for the amount of energy that it

Unknown:

took to go through those programs and get those grants,

Unknown:

they were only like 5010 $1,000 grants that can only get you so

Unknown:

far. And you know, like the big name companies, they're like,

Unknown:

we're gonna give a billion dollars or, you know, $200

Unknown:

million in funding, those grants are really small for a lot of

Unknown:

different people. And that's fine, that's just not

Unknown:

sustainable for a tech company. Right? We need something much

Unknown:

bigger. So, you know, for awhile, you know, we were

Unknown:

getting 25 $50,000 grants through pitch competitions,

Unknown:

which, you know, I had someone on the team just, you know,

Unknown:

sweeping the internet for, you know, mental health specific

Unknown:

grants, you know, black female, founder specific grants and

Unknown:

applying to as many of those as possible, you know, we did have

Unknown:

a couple of friends and family who really, really cared about

Unknown:

this, what I found is, you know, the idea was ahead of the head

Unknown:

of the curve. So when people started talking about mental

Unknown:

health, there were so many people who wanted to invest

Unknown:

their time and energy into what we were doing. So, you know,

Unknown:

that opened up some opportunity to fund some of the app

Unknown:

development, some of the team salaries, which we've been

Unknown:

incredibly lean up to this point, I still own 100% of the

Unknown:

company, which is fantastic. We have kind of paws on our grant

Unknown:

search at SBIR, Small Business Innovation and Research Grant or

Unknown:

STTR, which is small business tech transfer research grants

Unknown:

that something like that, you know, that is a fantastic

Unknown:

opportunity for for profit companies who are in tech and

Unknown:

research. It is a gamble, though, you know, so we are

Unknown:

actually just now starting to look into VC options, just kind

Unknown:

of out of curiosity. I've been talking to VCs for years, just

Unknown:

you know, Hey, are you interested? What would it look

Unknown:

like? We've protected our valuation, it really is to that

Unknown:

point where if we do want to go quickly after this first round

Unknown:

of research, where we have the idea of, Okay, we're good to go

Unknown:

on version three, we just need the the human power to code it.

Unknown:

That's where we'll negotiate with VCs and find a great

Unknown:

partner. But we've been extremely patient on finding a

Unknown:

good fit or dealing with data that's really sensitive and a

Unknown:

community that we really care about. So we want to make sure

Unknown:

that we partner with the VC, their mission and vision

Unknown:

aligned, they can bring people to the table within the

Unknown:

healthcare field and keep the research going. And you know,

Unknown:

they're a long term partner. So we have tried lots of different

Unknown:

routes, we're really, you know, adaptable, and we're very

Unknown:

diligent about how we move forward and how we invest in

Unknown:

this idea. That is such a good holistic answer. I think, like

Unknown:

from from where you started to where you're going, I definitely

Unknown:

want to like, I hope that people out there who are building

Unknown:

companies can take that advice and run with it. Before we get

Unknown:

into our last segment, I want to kind of quickly summarize the

Unknown:

conversation we've had so far. We started out with

Unknown:

Talking about timeout itself, and how it's a tool to go to

Unknown:

when a person may need a break. It started just for athletes.

Unknown:

But as you've been working on translating it to bigger

Unknown:

audiences, expanding into other environments, doing the research

Unknown:

that makes that all possible, the first step that you

Unknown:

mentioned, which I really like is problem curation, I think

Unknown:

that's a, that's a very intelligent way of putting it,

Unknown:

you figure out what the issues actually are, it's easier to

Unknown:

solve them. So the starting mark for the app is a survey that

Unknown:

helps put people into different categories depending on where

Unknown:

they're at with their mental health, you're simultaneously

Unknown:

figuring out what the problems that are there to solve, and

Unknown:

conducting in depth research to build up that library and app

Unknown:

content that can immediately help people on the platform. So

Unknown:

it's, it's kind of a self sustaining little ecosystem

Unknown:

there. You know, the more people that come on and add in, the

Unknown:

more pathways that you can create, the more problems you

Unknown:

can help solve and learn about the app is meant to help people

Unknown:

also overcome barriers to connecting to in person

Unknown:

resources. deeper levels of intervention are important. You

Unknown:

mentioned that for people who may be in those green and yellow

Unknown:

buckets, who may be hopefully self identifying accurately as

Unknown:

as being in a kind of good place, they need more kind of

Unknown:

retention, learning how to use the tools that they may already

Unknown:

have, how to highlight them in situations where they need them,

Unknown:

for people in the orange and red categories may need help. First

Unknown:

of all, identifying the barriers to getting in person help and

Unknown:

what those are. And secondly, actually connecting with the

Unknown:

resources that are available to them in their environment, to go

Unknown:

out and seek out the help that they need from in person. So you

Unknown:

offer a range of different resources at the touch of a

Unknown:

button, including crisis management through the timeout

Unknown:

button, which I think is so great, and so needed, the value

Unknown:

that you've had through the beta app. And the feedback that comes

Unknown:

from it has been usable, which is great. I had someone on

Unknown:

recently who said I love failure because you don't learn anything

Unknown:

from success. And I think that's, that's sort of it here

Unknown:

you're looking for the people who say this is this, I don't

Unknown:

like this, or I don't like that, or here's how you can fix this,

Unknown:

or here's how you can fix that. And beta testing and launching

Unknown:

is one great way to do that. actually creating the Tech has

Unknown:

been a slower process than expected, which is also in a way

Unknown:

expected because things do always take longer. And building

Unknown:

an app is hard. So and then we ended up with a little

Unknown:

conversation on funding. When it comes to funding the grant

Unknown:

process wasn't necessarily sustainable, because of the

Unknown:

amounts offered. This is a company that requires software

Unknown:

engineers, larger grants and other programs have made it

Unknown:

possible to build the company, but you are thinking about

Unknown:

entering into a VC strategy in the future to be able to speed

Unknown:

up that build and launch process now that you've been kind of

Unknown:

doing the research and getting everything ready on the back end

Unknown:

for a while now for you finding a VC that's aligned with your

Unknown:

mission is really key. And I think that there's a lot of

Unknown:

lessons to be learned both from the grant process that you

Unknown:

mentioned, and from the VC kind of search process, wage, Wade,

Unknown:

waiting through those options and figuring out which one is

Unknown:

right for you. So with all that in mind, I love to end on what I

Unknown:

call a moment of reflection, it's a chance for you to look

Unknown:

back on what you've done. And think about, you know, what

Unknown:

you've built and what it was like. So what is one thing you

Unknown:

would like to tell your younger self about getting into the tech

Unknown:

industry and being successful? I love this. You know,

Unknown:

it's so interesting that we're doing this podcast right now

Unknown:

because I've given my team August off and tried to give

Unknown:

myself August off, we're taking a timeout as a team. This is

Unknown:

part of my timeout because I get to talk about what I love and

Unknown:

and actually reflect on the progress you know, that I've

Unknown:

been able to make. And for anyone who knows me I'm I'm a

Unknown:

perfectionist. And I don't say that as in a bragging way. It's

Unknown:

been something that's been really hard to navigate since I

Unknown:

was an athlete and younger my never really took the time to

Unknown:

reflect on you know where she's been, she just kind of DiEM

Unknown:

rolls through and just laser focused to the point where she

Unknown:

couldn't take time out all of the money that we've raised and

Unknown:

the products that we're building and the people we've connected

Unknown:

to and the feedback it keeps me going but the thing I'm the most

Unknown:

proud of is walking the walk and saying you know, this is a hard

Unknown:

profession. This takes a lot it takes a lot of time. So it is

Unknown:

okay to set things down and then let the dust settle to

Unknown:

understand where to keep taking steps forward. I'm proud of

Unknown:

that. And I'm proud of my team that I've put together they're

Unknown:

beautiful people.

Unknown:

That's so wonderful. I like to your advice is to take a timeout

Unknown:

I think that that is important and asked thank you so much for

Unknown:

coming on you're having your off month where can people find you

Unknown:

follow you checkout timeout I will plug really quick the

Unknown:

timeout has a really nice website I'm someone who designs

Unknown:

websites for a living so I really liked this one um so

Unknown:

check out the website but tell me everything about where they

Unknown:

can find you follow you learn more all that good stuff.

Unknown:

Absolutely. Well you can always find me on LinkedIn McClendon I

Unknown:

you know have a lot of in my chats but you can actually book

Unknown:

an appointment with me straight through that and I love to

Unknown:

Coffee Chat with anybody

Unknown:

Um, you can follow us at timeout underscore IO on Instagram. And

Unknown:

we have, again, amazing team members who, you know, have the

Unknown:

same same mentality as me and as much to offer. And yeah, you

Unknown:

know, always follow us on our on our website. Now we're

Unknown:

officially launching our services, having a little launch

Unknown:

party in September and then you'll just be able to sign up

Unknown:

for our newsletter and that's the time on app.com. So, looking

Unknown:

forward to connecting with anyone who's interested on this

Unknown:

podcast will actually come out in September so everyone, mark

Unknown:

your calendars for the launch party or check out all the after

Unknown:

materials for all the listeners out there. Also, be sure to

Unknown:

leave five star ratings and reviews. Check out other

Unknown:

holodeck media podcasts, including metal business and

Unknown:

business at esports. I'm on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn

Unknown:

and Lindsey pass and catch me Wednesday afternoons on the

Unknown:

business of esports life after show and you can catch this

Unknown:

podcast in your feed every week. We'll see you next week. Thanks

Unknown:

for joining us here on meta woman. Make sure to subscribe to

Unknown:

this podcast everywhere you get your podcasts, leave a five star

Unknown:

review and tell your friends, family and colleagues all about

Unknown:

us. Also, make sure to follow metta TV on all socials to get

Unknown:

more of the best Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every

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week for another episode of meadow woman

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About the Podcast

META Woman
Weekly metaverse content - for women, by women
Meta Woman will focus on addressing the issues, opportunities, and challenges facing women in the development of the Metaverse. Top female executives and business people operating within the gaming and crypto industries bring a wide range of perspectives through regular guest appearances.